Jay Russell - Albany,NY - Questions about his BJJ Black Belt and BJJ lineage.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 9:29am

Originally Posted by cbeatty

Here is how I see things…If you have this much time to spend posting on the internet and researching Jiu-Jitsu lineage, you should really get a life.

You just posted so, this is quite ironic.

I personally spent approximately 10 years of sweat, blood and tears earning my black belt and I am not challenging or questioning Jay Russell’s rank or affiliations. I am not sure who you are, nor do I care, but I would recommend you go to Jay’s academy and train with him, or issue a challenge match, to see if you think he is at BB level. I am sure he would be more than happy to accommodate you.

Funny, I know Black Belts in BJJ, on this very website and others that do care about lineage.

I mean there is a list floating around that shows all of Carlos Gracie Sr.'s Black Belts. Even listing some that were removed from his lineage. I know the Gracie's and the Machado's list many of their promotions and students on the dreaded internets

Hell the Gracie's copyrighted their form of BJJ and will sue concerning their lineage.

One thing I know for sure is that Jay was accepting challenge matches to prove the effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu before most people had heard of Jiu-Jitsu or MMA. He has stepped onto the mat, into the cage, and on the street to test his skills.
Also, regarding his relationship with Jordan Damon… they were great friends and training partners. At one point, Jordan was probably one of the best light weights in the country.
Obviously you have some sort of ax to grind; but I would recommend you spend more time training and less time typing.

Chad Beatty
Spa City Jiu-Jitsu

...and this relates to his lineage and BB BJJ claim how? Who said he was unskilled? Who said he wasn't a fighter?

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 9:31am

Originally Posted by Dojostormz

I consider this thread to be over. Let me summarize.

Jay claims that he got his BB from Tai Kai while training w/ Jordan Damon.
Mr. Anthony came to Mr. Russell's defense and gave more detail to the story.

So, the claim that Mr. Russell makes:

Mr. Russell claims to have received his BB from Tai Kai while training w/ Jordan Damon.

This can be seen to be absolutely, 100% not true, as Ken Kronenberg, head of Tai Kai has refuted Jay's Claim and say's he has not seen Jay in over 10 years in this email:

Any concern about whether or not Mr. Damon has ever previously claimed to be a BB is irrelevant despite what RachaelK thinks, as both Mr. Russell and Mr. Anthony claim Jay got the belt from Tai Kai.

Furthermore Mr. Beatty, I have nothing but respect for you, I understand you have known Mr. Russell for a long time. However, I think the fact that you have not stood up for Mr. Russell and instead have said (roughly) that I should spend less time researching these things, is very telling. If you yourself believe Mr. Russell is blackbelt level, WHICH I would like to point out was NEVER in question here, perhaps you should give him one.

Unless I'm missing something, or my simple logic is somehow flawed, I think this matter is more or less settled.

Unfortunately the matter is not settled. Threads like this one typically go on for months, often waiting for the subject, like Mr. Russell to provide a detailed explaination for their conduct.

Secondly IF Mr. Damon was presenting himself as a BJJ Black Belt before he earned this rank, there is little to separate him morally from Mr. Russell. I would like to hear Mr. Damon's explaination of screen save that was posted here by the advocate for Mr. Russell. If someone has his direct email I would be happy to invite him here to comment.

**NewYorkJiuJitsu** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 9:32am

Dojostormz,
You have just admitted your guilt by accusing my of saying something I never said. When in my response did I ever say I spoke to Ken Kronenberg? The answer is never. You like to fabricate things and it is very clear. Tai Kai existed long before it was taken over by team Balance and that school is no longer in existence. You need to do better research because you have no idea what you are talking about. Why dont you search the internet and find countless pictures and videos with Jordan Damon and a black belt around his waste. These are from years ago. Your personal vendetta has to be put to an end. Saying that I am a liar is going to get you nowhere because unlike you i researched all of this. Obviously out of everyone on this forum it would be most important for me to find out Jay Russel was a fraud since he teaches at my school. I have researched this day and night and have found no validity in anything you have said.

**Counsel.Gov** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 9:40am

As a 10+ year BJJ player who holds a law degree, I'd like to make the following (somewhat long-winded) comment(s) regarding the substance of this thread, for the allegations made (if factually correct) carry with them legal consequences for not only Mr. Russell, but NY Jiu-Jitsu as well.

While I understand and respect Mr. Beatty's post re: the zealousness of Dojostormz' attempts at discerning the true lineage of Mr. Russell (and the motivation for him doing so), I, for one, think it refreshing that a BJJ student should actually care enough about where he trains to research an instructor's credentials (and only he knows if his intentions are 'pure'). If nothing else, it tries to instill a bit of integrity into a system that was originally built upon a foundation of honor, discipline, and commitment. The world can always use a little bit more of that.....

If a consumer of BJJ made a decision to 1. bypass attending other area schools; and 2. attend Mr. Russell's school based on his/her reliance on a misrepresentation of material fact (that Mr. Russell had been a BJJ black belt for 10 years, when, in-fact, he was not), that is what the legal system calls "fraud" or "fraudulent misrepresentation" and it is actionable in a (civil) court of law. Let's be clear in this situation - the skill level, competitive accomplishments, and personal attributes of Mr. Russell are not the issue here (legally speaking). And based on Mr. Kronenberg's statement, it is not possible that Mr. Russell was awarded a BB at the time in question. Mr. Anthony's attempted explanation has done nothing but dig him and NYJJ into a deeper legal hole.

The above being said, common sense in this situation should prevail: Dojostormz - shut down the computer and get on the mat. Though I'm not sure how you'd be received at any school should your 'true identity' ever be revealed, if your commitment to training BJJ is anything like your commitment to finding factual inconsistencies, you should be earning your BB in no time; Mr. Russell - find a reputable BB instructor to evaluate your current skills, knowledge, etc., and do what it takes to earn a valid BB and restore your reputation in the BJJ community. No one can take way the 19+ years you have invested in martial arts; NYJJ/Mr. Anthony - Shame on you for not properly vetting your employees/instructors and attempting to sweep an otherwise a serious matter under the rug by providing a completely transparent and bogus explanation. If the common sense you failed to use had been on par with the money you invested in your school, you'd have one hell of a training facility.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 9:42am

Originally Posted by NewYorkJiuJitsu

Dojostormz,
You have just admitted your guilt by accusing my of saying something I never said. When in my response did I ever say I spoke to Ken Kronenberg? The answer is never. You like to fabricate things and it is very clear. Tai Kai existed long before it was taken over by team Balance and that school is no longer in existence. You need to do better research because you have no idea what you are talking about. Why dont you search the internet and find countless pictures and videos with Jordan Damon and a black belt around his waste. These are from years ago. Your personal vendetta has to be put to an end. Saying that I am a liar is going to get you nowhere because unlike you i researched all of this. Obviously out of everyone on this forum it would be most important for me to find out Jay Russel was a fraud since he teaches at my school. I have researched this day and night and have found no validity in anything you have said.

Pictures of people do not answer questions of rank. The subject is your BJJ ranking not what belt he is wearing in a photo or video without ocntext.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 9:47am

Mr. Anthony, would you kindly answer my prevuous enquiry regarding how long Mr. Damon has been a black belt and additionally (if you'd be so kind) when that grade was issued.

If I understand you correctly, you're stating that Mr. Damon has been a black belt for a number of years - that grade being issued to him via the Tai Kai, Mr. Damon has however only very recently been awarded another black belt (for the same art) but this time issued to him by another instructor. Please correct me if I've misunderstood you.

I also understand that Mr. Russell got his black belt some years back as a result of being a student of Mr. Damon.. Correct ?

Thank you.

Dave

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 9:53am

Oh and just as a point of administration to anyone who wishes to contribute.

STOP making the statement that people should get a life or stop posting and train more.

If I see more of this crap - infractions will start getting dished out.

**NewYorkJiuJitsu** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 10:06am

Counsel.gov I have not brushed anything under the rug and I have taken these accusations and researched them thoroughly. All I can post at the current time is what I have been told by people I hope I can trust. Phil Migliarese and I have spoke at length about this issue and I trust what he has told me. I am still researching this matter. My explanation was not bogus in anyway. The truth will come out and this topic will be validated once and for all.

**Counsel.Gov** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 10:50am

Yes, Mr. Anthony. in time, the truth will eventually come out, and when it does, I hope for the sake of BJJ, that it is kind to everyone involved in this otherwise messy situation, inlcuding both Mr. Russell and yourself.

It seems everyone caught-up in this tangled web has seemingly "tried to do the right thing" - Dojostormz was new it town and just trying to find a legit BB to train under; Mr. Russell, a seasoned vet who was just trying to make a living doing the thing he loved most; Mr. Sanzo was just sharing his opinion and what info. he had been told from higher-ranking BBs re: Mr. Russell's credentials, including Fabio C., Renzo, etc.; Mr. Damon, who may (or may not) have tried to do the right thing by his friend and training partner......

I could go on, but you get the point. There are many issues here - both legal and moral. Fortunately, truth (in the factual sense) is an absolute defense to all of them. Whether it's a claim of fraud, fraudulent misrepresentation, libel, slander, or defamation, "truth" is an absolute defense......remember that. It could save you a lot of money and heart-ache in the weeks/months to come.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 9/22/2010 11:13am

Originally Posted by NewYorkJiuJitsu

The truth will come out and this topic will be validated once and for all.

You seem to avoid answering my enquiries...

This

For my clarity, Mr. Damon has been a Black Belt for how long with the Tai Kai ?

Thank you

And..

Mr. Anthony, would you kindly answer my prevuous enquiry regarding how long Mr. Damon has been a black belt and additionally (if you'd be so kind) when that grade was issued.

If I understand you correctly, you're stating that Mr. Damon has been a black belt for a number of years - that grade being issued to him via the Tai Kai, Mr. Damon has however only very recently been awarded another black belt (for the same art) but this time issued to him by another instructor. Please correct me if I've misunderstood you.

I also understand that Mr. Russell got his black belt some years back as a result of being a student of Mr. Damon.. Correct ?

Thank you.