Jay Russell - Albany,NY - Questions about his BJJ Black Belt and BJJ lineage.

**Dojostormz** · Posted On: 9/19/2010 1:59pm

Originally Posted by Hugo Stiglitz

Ok.. this is more like it.

When was that email dated and do you still have a copy of it available?

September 15th 2010, Yes I still have a copy of it

**Dojostormz** · Posted On: 9/19/2010 2:19pm

Originally Posted by Dsimon3387

Here are some interesting points for the OP to consider:

a) the whole time line involved with the Carlson Gracie situation is odd. You have the student you mention, the fellow who will not wear the BB given to him. It seems to me that he would have discovered this "problem" with his BB a bit earlier than he did. Did he have another issue with the teacher you are not mentioning? Is there more to this that is not being stated?

b) You say there are other issues that you do not want to mention. The problem here is that these issues may materially affect the real issue. You have at least two people (you and this BB) who decided to question rank.... yet this guy was able all this time to other wise make a claim that to my limited understanding is hard to make in that community. It makes me think that there are other things not being said here.

While this teacher speaks to the issue (not responding/responding) is there any way to elaborate on these other issues you characterize as being off limits? at least categorically describing them? issues of character, issues of Hygeine, issues of betrayal, differences of opinion, etc?

Can anybody confirm whether it is strange for a person in the BJJ community, a hypothetical person, to be able to claim a BB when, as I understand it, most of these claims are dealt with relatively quickly in the BJJ community?

A) I have no idea what the circumstances were regarding the student leaving Mr. Russell. I know that it occurred some while ago. I contacted him asking him about his BB posing as a student so not to arouse his suspicion. Frankly, I was surprised by his candidness.

B) Let me explain the story a little bit better. 15 years ago there were very few people in the Albany area who practiced BJJ. Jay from my understanding was one of these original practitioners. All legit guys in the area either got their start with Jay and therefore seem unwillingly to openly criticize him out of respect (though they chuckle about the BB behind his back, long before there was substantial evidence that it was illegitimate) or they are newer to the area and either don't know him/don't care/ or consider him an oddity.

It certainly is strange that someone parading as a BJJ black belt would would have their claim unchallenged for so long. I am unable to explain this in any terms other than the ones I offered above. I realize that it appears strange that these claims would come so suddenly and so late. It simply stems from my happening across this information. As I do more research his story continues to appear more off.

I also found this thread on Sherdog:
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/pl...kbelt-1196002/

Also, it appears at least a portion of Mr. Russell's resume is legit:
http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Jay-Russell-3031

**Dojostormz** · Posted On: 9/19/2010 2:28pm

I also found this link where he claims that he is a BB under Jordan Damon AND that Jordan Damon is a BB under Carlson Gracie: http://www.myspace.com/russell_jiujitsu

**CrapKnee** · Posted On: 9/19/2010 8:47pm

I live in Albany, and would love to help with this in some way. However, my own actual skills are next to nonexistent (the only hard sparring schools around here that I have so far found are either inaccessible to me for transportation reasons or far too expensive). But if there is something that I could do to help, I am at least in the area.

**Lebell** · Posted On: 9/20/2010 6:02am

Originally Posted by Dojostormz

Absolutely, I would advise others to avoid any school where the instructor clearly lies about his lineage, regardless of his skill.

A few thoughts: i think it's a personal choice if you would or would not want to learn from a guy who'd lie about his lineage when his skills are good.

you could think the guy is a douchebag for lying about lineage, or you could be pragmatic and get tuition from a skilled grappler.
that's your own choice.

If the information you put up here is correct then it seems that Russell went along with the lie for as long as he could, and thus not showing any form of integrity/ personal growth that would make him come clean.

Part of me understands it must be hard to be trapped in such a lie, it could be funest for your bussiness to bring up such a lie.
On the other hand: if all his other accomplishments are legit and he's a good grappler, he should get a firm kick under his ass for being a douchebag, but hey, he knows his **** and it would be a shame to totally discard him.
We're all human and we all make mistakes.

Now what the original poster should realise is that a lot of people start these kinda threads/investigations out of a personal grudge.
I think ' Hugo Stiglitz' (don't worry it's ot the real one) is making sure you are honestly adressing a issue, and not trying to get back at this Jay Russell.

my two cents.

**Dojostormz** · Posted On: 9/20/2010 8:25am

Originally Posted by Lebell

A few thoughts: i think it's a personal choice if you would or would not want to learn from a guy who'd lie about his lineage when his skills are good.

you could think the guy is a douchebag for lying about lineage, or you could be pragmatic and get tuition from a skilled grappler.
that's your own choice.

If the information you put up here is correct then it seems that Russell went along with the lie for as long as he could, and thus not showing any form of integrity/ personal growth that would make him come clean.

Part of me understands it must be hard to be trapped in such a lie, it could be funest for your bussiness to bring up such a lie.
On the other hand: if all his other accomplishments are legit and he's a good grappler, he should get a firm kick under his ass for being a douchebag, but hey, he knows his **** and it would be a shame to totally discard him.
We're all human and we all make mistakes.

Now what the original poster should realise is that a lot of people start these kinda threads/investigations out of a personal grudge.
I think ' Hugo Stiglitz' (don't worry it's ot the real one) is making sure you are honestly adressing a issue, and not trying to get back at this Jay Russell.

my two cents.

I agree which is why I've tried to take the steps to show that there is no agenda. I was definitely a bit overzealous to start, so I don't blame him for the conclusion he reached.

Perhaps you're right in saying that what Mr. Russell needs is a swift kick in the ass, rather than a true tearing down. I suppose that will be dictated by what we can find out about this. I'm having trouble tracking down a contact for Jordan Damon, to either legitimatize or deny Mr. Russell's claim, any help there would be appreciated.

**pluma134** · Posted On: 9/20/2010 11:56am

post edited to correct grammatical errors.

**pluma134** · Posted On: 9/20/2010 12:10pm

post edited to correct grammatical errors

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 9/20/2010 12:15pm

Originally Posted by pluma134

Hello, im replying to the post not a bb, im Jay, and my story goes as follows and is very simple,Ive been on the mat for over 30 years and doing BJJ for well over 10, if any of my credentials are incorrect I appologize, I dont believe they are, but if so, im sorry, I have many many more that I never listed, anyone who knows me, knows the truth, I started with nick sanzo, and went on to train with fabio Clemente and Rigan machado, before faceing Jordon Damon in A super fight at NAGA, were we became like Brothers,I than competed under my sponcer Hunter, because fabio had a falling out with Rigan ? dont know why,Began traing under Tai-Kia- Brazialian Jiu-jitsu were I got My Black belt And continued to train with Jordan And fight under him for years to come. Who ever thought they stumped me, I highly doubt it.Come in and watch me teach or I will be very happy to Grapple witrh you and show you my level, in a very respectful way, thank you.

Hi teacher:

Thanks for responding and let me make a suggestion to you. Given your post you may have a situation that is similar to some of what I have experienced. In my case some of th people I trained with I never got formal certs from... that is just their way.

If this is your situation try to get a letter or something fromthese people. Do it because these "FALL OUTS" happen a lot more than they should. When they do you cannot verify information.

It sounds like this situation you speak of could be resolved easily this way... I hope this helps I would strongly suggest it as one who has about 35 years experience at this point.

Sincerely

dsimon

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 9/20/2010 12:16pm

Thank you for posting in a timely and non-confrontational manner. Would any of your instructors be willing to make an official statement as to your BJJ lineage?

As that is the only Martial Arts credential apparently in question, it would go a long way towards shutting this thread down.