Jay Russell - Albany,NY - Questions about his BJJ Black Belt and BJJ lineage.

[DarkPhoenix]

As of this post, the black belt judo claim was still listed on the NYJJ site:

http://nyjiujitsualbany.com/node/20

The question here would be whether the owner/promoter of that tournament was qualified to award judo rank on the basis of competition performance. Maybe some judo folks could enlighten us and see if the official judo organizations in the country have any records of Jay Russell's judo rank.

I'll find out from USJA. I have to call them anyway to get my background check rolling

[DarkPhoenix]

I contacted USJA via email in regards to Jay Russell's judo BB, and they do not have him in the database.

Craig Wildfeuer <zsnyper@gmail.com>toMEMBERSHIP@usja-judo.org
dateFri, Sep 24, 2010 at 14:27subjectInquiry on a black belt.mailed-bygmail.com
hide details 14:27 (26 minutes ago)

Robin,

I was curious if you have a black belt with the USJA by the name Jay
Shannon Russell?

Thanks

Craig Wildfeuer Jr



We are Sofa King, We Todd Ed!!
__________________________________________________ ____
Robin Ridley <robin@usja-judo.org>toCraig Wildfeuer <zsnyper@gmail.com>
dateFri, Sep 24, 2010 at 14:46subjectRE: Inquiry on a black belt.
hide details 14:46 (7 minutes ago)


Craig,
I did not find a Jay Shannon Russell in our data base.

Thank you,
Robin
__________________________________________________ _____
Craig Wildfeuer <zsnyper@gmail.com>toRobin Ridley <robin@usja-judo.org>
dateFri, Sep 24, 2010 at 14:47subjectRe: Inquiry on a black belt.mailed-bygmail.com
hide details 14:47 (6 minutes ago)


What about Jay Russell?
We are Sofa King, We Todd Ed!!
_______________________________________________
Robin Ridley <robin@usja-judo.org>toCraig Wildfeuer <zsnyper@gmail.com>
dateFri, Sep 24, 2010 at 14:53subjectRE: Inquiry on a black belt.
hide details 14:53 (0 minutes ago)


No Jay Russell.

[ignatzami]

I know this is slightly off topic but I have trained with Ken Kronenberg at Tai Kai, he always came across as knowledgeable, grounded, and an all round decent guy. I'm sorry to see him brought into this mess but I do hope he stays around to offer his experience.

[Sam Browning]

Hi Dark Phoenix,

Can you check with the other two judo organizations in the USA?

[Rock Ape]

I know this is slightly off topic but I have trained with Ken Kronenberg at Tai Kai, he always came across as knowledgeable, grounded, and an all round decent guy. I'm sorry to see him brought into this mess but I do hope he stays around to offer his experience.

Remember where this is Please. On Topic discussion.

This thread isn't about people's personalities, knowledge or anything else other than the respective claims relating to grades in BJJ.

[real faixa roxa]

Thanks for the post, but what is your proof of this?

What do you know about his judo black belt?

he told me himself when i asked him about it. jay said it was given to him after i believe he said "the empire state games". i also asked who gave him his bjj BB- to which he said jordan damon. he claims that allan goes-jordan damon-jay russell lineage. i asked allan goes on facebook if they were his BB's, he replied NO, I have 7 BB's all in California. i also was one one of Jays early students- ripped off like many others. he has asked forgiveness and i gave it to him. people do make mistakes but , to continually lie to everyone like he's doing is showing poor character and no honor. he doesn't respect anyone ;especially the peoples names he drags into the web of deceit.

[DarkPhoenix]

he told me himself when i asked him about it. jay said it was given to him after i believe he said "the empire state games". i also asked who gave him his bjj BB- to which he said jordan damon. he claims that allan goes-jordan damon-jay russell lineage. i asked allan goes on facebook if they were his BB's, he replied NO, I have 7 BB's all in California. i also was one one of Jays early students- ripped off like many others. he has asked forgiveness and i gave it to him. people do make mistakes but , to continually lie to everyone like he's doing is showing poor character and no honor. he doesn't respect anyone ;especially the peoples names he drags into the web of deceit.

Okay, last I checked they do not have batsugan rules in the Empire State Games. That isn't just a little tourney, that is basically the NYS Olympics.

Sam-I will email USJF and USJI for clarification on his status, if any, in Judo. I am pretty sure there is NO way he got his judo BB at the Empir State Games as that is a USJI sanctioned thing.


EDIT: I checked the rolls of the Empire State games going back as far at 1997, and Jay Russell is on none of them for judo.

http://www.empirestategames.org/summ...ault.asp?year=


EDIT #2: I have emailed both USJF and USJI in regards to Jay Russell judo grading. USJF does allow for batsugan in a local sanctioned tourney and the person has to beat 5 players of the same rank by ippon (throw, submission, or 25 sec pin) in one tourney to even be consider for it. It isn't automatic either, as it goes towards that persons promotion points.


http://www.usjf.com/public/rank_requirement.pdf

[DuckofDeath]

USJF does allow for batsugan in a local sanctioned tourney and the person has to beat 5 players of the same rank by ippon (throw, submission, or 25 sec pin) in one tourney to even be consider for it. It isn't automatic either, as it goes towards that persons promotion points.

So you would already have to be at the highest level of brown belt, and then consecutively beat 5 players of that rank or higher, by ippon (winning throw, pin, or submission), to earn points that would count towards promotion to black belt, correct?

[DuckofDeath]

I did not hear anything about Jay until a few years ago. A few years ago I saw on myspace a page that said Black Belt by Jordan Damon. I talked to Jordan about it, He said you know Jay and his craziness and drama. I said you should tell him to take it off cause it makes you look bad. Jordan was a brown belt at the time. Jay even put together highlight films etc. Jordan said he talked to Jay about it. we always laughed about it. Jordan probably said to him one time. you are good you should be a black belt./ which is a comment that people say sometimes. Only an idiot would hear that comment and make himself a black belt.

I'm understanding this to mean that "a few years ago" Jordan Damon was a brown belt in BJJ.

Now Jay would indeed have to be an idiot if he made himself a BJJ black belt after a BJJ brown belt told him that he was good enough to be a BJJ black belt.

[Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs]

So you would already have to be at the highest level of brown belt, and then consecutively beat 5 players of that rank or higher, by ippon (winning throw, pin, or submission), to earn points that would count towards promotion to black belt, correct?

Yes and No...

Yes, if you are already a Judoka it will go to your promotion points.

No, if you come from another grappling style that can fight under the Judo ruleset, most known compatable styles would be (sport) SAMBO and Wrestling (with maybe a preferance of Greco-Roman above Freestyle) and two lesser known styles would be Shuai Jiao or Kurash, then you would get a Judo BB.

Now in the second case, there aren't many fighters from other styles that can and have pulled off batsugan. At this moment only Ron Tripp comes to mind.

Another problem is that he claims to have done batsugan at the Empire State Games. Those games are even known in Europe and the level of skill of the Judoka competing there is quit high.

So if he went batsugan there as a Judoka his name would be known in the Judo world in the same manner as Eddie Bravo's name was known after the ADCC where he beat Royler Gracie.
If he was there as a non-Judoka he would have been already a house-hold name in his style.