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  1. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 5:01pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Max Heart Rates and Conditioning

    Here's a question. It's a given that my conditioning is crappy; a good bit less crappy than it was when I fought in 2007, but on the crappiness scale it's still a solid 7.

    So I just got back from the gym where I did a hybridized Crossfit style workout. Basically I ran 400m on the treadmill, then did two sets of dumbbell lifts (bp and rows). 3 sets of those, mixed with a 400m run in between sets, then 3 sets of dips and pull-ups with 400m between sets, and 3 sets of cable chest/back crap followed by a final 400m.

    I ran the 400m at the 10 MPH setting (6 minute mile pace, 1:30 for the quarter mile). After each run, my heart rate is about 190, which at my age is just a bit higher than what my MHR is supposed to be.

    It drops to 160 with a minute of rest, and below 150 after two minutes/while I'm lifting.

    Blood pressure is fine, I'm not seeing squiggles or getting fuzzy headed, even though I had about 2 cups of coffee before going (not intentionally, wasn't sure I was going to the gym).

    So for those people who are more knowledgeable than me, how do you read this? Should I tone it down? Is there a problem with hitting my MHR during a workout?

    My current goals, aside from general combat fitness, center around maxing the APFT, and I've always sucked at running. So I have to push as hard as I can, and make as much progress as quickly as is safe to do.
  2. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 5:26pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't drink coffee before training next time and measure your heart rate then. It's a simplistic answer, but it would be a more accurate baseline sample than your current one.
  3. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 5:34pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think the coffee is much of a factor, it's pretty much like this regardless of whether or not I've had any. Coffee just tends to bump my blood pressure up, and my resting heart rate a few points.

    With that in mind, any ideas? Is it dangerous to get my HR that high?
  4. Aodhan is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 5:36pm


     Style: ATA TKD, Hapkido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    My current goals, aside from general combat fitness, center around maxing the APFT, and I've always sucked at running. So I have to push as hard as I can, and make as much progress as quickly as is safe to do.
    To get better at running, you need to run more. Plain and simple. Run, run lots. Mostly easy, sometimes fast.

    And how are you figuring MHR? The 220-age thing is one of the worst perpetuated myths in exercise phys. Your 190 may or may not be anywhere near your true MHR.

    John
  5. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 6:51pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that's how I'm figuring it; it's what I was taught. I always guessed it was more of a rule of thumb.

    How the hell do you safely find your true MHR though?
  6. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 7:26pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For max HR I have always used this formula:

    210 minus 50% of your age minus 5% of your body weight (pounds) + 4 if male and 0 if female = Estimated Maximum heart rate.
  7. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 7:52pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    With those figures I'm still brushing up against my MHR.

    I guess the important question is, is that dangerous?
  8. Aodhan is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 8:00pm


     Style: ATA TKD, Hapkido

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    Yeah, that's how I'm figuring it; it's what I was taught. I always guessed it was more of a rule of thumb.

    How the hell do you safely find your true MHR though?
    clinical test designed to produce as near mHr as possible.

    Just to get it "off the cuff" so to speak, there are two decent formulae. one was developed after a peer review of many studies, and is:
    206 - (.685x age), standard deviation is big, 6-8 bpm.

    Another one developed at Oakland univ is:
    191.5 − (0.007 age^2), and this has a deviation of 2-5 bpm, and was also developed after a 25 year tracking study of HR's.

    This one gives me a theoretical max of ~179, the previous one a theoretical max of ~176, so both fairly close, although my HR still can go into the 180's at peak. There is also some evidence that the type of training (Endurance vs sprint/power) can also affect max hr.

    John
  9. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 8:13pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At 35, 175 lbs, I'm pulling a 190, occasionally a tad higher.

    How long could I safely sustain that kind of effort? I'm thinking of investing in one of those meters you strap to your chest, so I can see what I'm pulling when doing roadwork/ruck marching/etc. I suspect I've been keeping it up there pretty high for up to 30 minutes at a time during certain workouts.

    Am I going to kill myself doing this? Is it detrimental to my goals? Or should I just ignore all this crap and push as hard as I perceive I'm capable of pushing?
  10. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/16/2010 10:36pm

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     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So I have to push as hard as I can, and make as much progress as quickly as is safe to do.
    Not sure where you are in relation to your goals but,
    making progress as quickly as possible may not include pushing as hard as one can,
    as often as most people think.

    To answer your question,
    assuming you do not have any underlying heart problems you are probably fine,
    but redlining all the time may not be the most effective way to spend your training.
    Most people go too soft an the hard days and and too hard on the easy days.
    That is one of the values of HR training, that you really push on the hard days and don't on the easier days.

    Using a HRM over time and keeping records is a better way to figure out your zones than any formula(the stress/blood test is not avail to most..), and just checking your HR periodically during exercise is inaccurate.
    Your HR at the end of a run is not as important as the HR throughout the run.
    For example you could have been slacking for an hour and sprinted the last 100 m and been at your max.
    If you buy a meter, the programmable zones and interval timers are pretty much a prerequisite for anything useful.

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