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  1. Bad Grappler is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 1:29pm


     Style: BJJ

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I learned it takes more than skill to earn a belt

    Back ground:
    Been training for 10 months. I've been doing 4-5 classes a week, doing open mat with a competition purple belt and doing drills everyday for the past 4 months to get ready for NAGA.
    Lately, I can submit most the 1 stripe blue belts and have a high success rate on my techniques against other white belts. I weigh 180 lbs, and try my best to not use strength.
    So, the other night at my bjj class was promotion night. I was told by a purple belt, that teaches the morning classes, that he thought I would be getting my blue belt. We don't do formal testing at our gym. And the last couple of weeks, I felt really good when rolling. So, I was pretty excited.
    My instructor, a 2nd degree black belt, was calling several white belts up and giving them a stripe. After about 5 white belts it seemed their was a pause, the purple belt, pulled out a blue belt and walked up beside the BB. My BB looked at me and said, "we have one more getting stripes", and called my name.
    I tried to play it like I was happy, despite the shocked look on the purple belts face as he walked away still holding the blue belt.
    As my BB was putting on the stripes, he was telling the class how much hard work I've been doing and as a 4 stripe white belt, I'm close to blue and such. Then he dropped his voice and quietly told me, he liked that I was working so hard outside of class, but "You need to really listen to the guys around you. They've put in a lot of time and paid their dues. You can really learn a lot from the guys that have already walked this path."
    After that, he promotes 5 people to blue belt. All of which I've submitted regularly, 2 of which joined after I did, and none that can submit me. (3 are bigger than me)

    AND THAT'S WHEN IT SUNK IN!

    I still have a white belt not because i don't know the techniques. But because I don't fully listen to my black belt!

    What I mean by that; when I asked my BB what I could do to prepare for some up coming competitions. He said just keep coming to class regularly. Not the answer I was expecting from someone that has and does coach competition teams.

    ***Don't get me wrong, when I ask after a technique or a situation, it almost becomes a private lesson with the amount of info and help he gives. It's incredible. That's why I was shocked at the competition comment***

    So I went outside of the gym and got a weight lifting routine, drill routine, game plan and flow chart. (A few weeks later I started to dominate the other white belts) When someone asked, I would tell them that I got with someone outside of the school and they helped me create a plan. I wasn't lying or bitter. Just told them I loved it. One day my BB heard me, but didn't say anything.
    ANOTHER area that I believe is getting confused, is I don't always follow the steps the way he teaches them when I roll. MEANING: He teaches a technique or setup, I drill it to a 'T'. But when I roll, I can hear him tell me to do 'X' or 'Y'. And when I start my partner knows what's coming, cause he drilled it to, so my chances just dropped. BUT what I have been doing lately, is looking up different setups for the techniques he taught. And use those setups when I roll. I've had a high success with my techniques, mostly because my partner doesn't know what I'm about to do now.
    And like before, when someone asks, I tell them what I did. Not to be a dick, or to teach a class, but because I get better with better partners. I don't want to roll with a guy I can dominate.

    SO! I've decided, to keep my mouth shut 99% percent of class and if someone asks me something, just gonna call for an instructor to answer their question.

    I'm not upset about not getting my blue, and I understand why he said that. Hell, he's had his black belt for 8 years and owns a bjj school. I trust him more than myself when it comes to bjj.

    I feel better after writing this. But I would like to hear everyone's thoughts as well. Feel free to flame on!
  2. slamdunc is online now
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    Extraordinarily Ordinary

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    Feb 2005
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    Illinois
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 3:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, CMA & American Kenpo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Grappler View Post
    I still have a white belt not because i don't know the techniques. But because I don't fully listen to my black belt!
    IMHO, you actually caught on pretty fast and can see the 'big picture'. In some instances, your martial attitude will get you farther than your martial arts.

    I was always lean and athletic with good balance and learned the fundamentals quickly. What put me behind the curve was my outlook AND Kenpo politics. One of the guys I began training with (I missed two classes) got promoted before me merely because I wasn't at a practice session. We were sparring and he said "you have a pretty good round-kick for a white belt". That was when I decided that just because I could out point someone, that didn't necessarily mean that I was a better martial artist. My attitude changed and my capacity for actually learning grew.
    Last edited by slamdunc; 4/01/2014 3:10pm at .
  3. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    6,767

    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 3:21pm

    supporting member
     

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Grappler View Post
    Back ground:
    Been training for 10 months. I've been doing 4-5 classes a week, doing open mat with a competition purple belt and doing drills everyday for the past 4 months to get ready for NAGA.
    Lately, I can submit most the 1 stripe blue belts and have a high success rate on my techniques against other white belts. I weigh 180 lbs, and try my best to not use strength.
    So, the other night at my bjj class was promotion night. I was told by a purple belt, that teaches the morning classes, that he thought I would be getting my blue belt. We don't do formal testing at our gym. And the last couple of weeks, I felt really good when rolling. So, I was pretty excited.
    My instructor, a 2nd degree black belt, was calling several white belts up and giving them a stripe. After about 5 white belts it seemed their was a pause, the purple belt, pulled out a blue belt and walked up beside the BB. My BB looked at me and said, "we have one more getting stripes", and called my name.
    I tried to play it like I was happy, despite the shocked look on the purple belts face as he walked away still holding the blue belt.
    As my BB was putting on the stripes, he was telling the class how much hard work I've been doing and as a 4 stripe white belt, I'm close to blue and such. Then he dropped his voice and quietly told me, he liked that I was working so hard outside of class, but "You need to really listen to the guys around you. They've put in a lot of time and paid their dues. You can really learn a lot from the guys that have already walked this path."
    After that, he promotes 5 people to blue belt. All of which I've submitted regularly, 2 of which joined after I did, and none that can submit me. (3 are bigger than me)

    AND THAT'S WHEN IT SUNK IN!

    I still have a white belt not because i don't know the techniques. But because I don't fully listen to my black belt!

    What I mean by that; when I asked my BB what I could do to prepare for some up coming competitions. He said just keep coming to class regularly. Not the answer I was expecting from someone that has and does coach competition teams.

    ***Don't get me wrong, when I ask after a technique or a situation, it almost becomes a private lesson with the amount of info and help he gives. It's incredible. That's why I was shocked at the competition comment***

    So I went outside of the gym and got a weight lifting routine, drill routine, game plan and flow chart. (A few weeks later I started to dominate the other white belts) When someone asked, I would tell them that I got with someone outside of the school and they helped me create a plan. I wasn't lying or bitter. Just told them I loved it. One day my BB heard me, but didn't say anything.
    ANOTHER area that I believe is getting confused, is I don't always follow the steps the way he teaches them when I roll. MEANING: He teaches a technique or setup, I drill it to a 'T'. But when I roll, I can hear him tell me to do 'X' or 'Y'. And when I start my partner knows what's coming, cause he drilled it to, so my chances just dropped. BUT what I have been doing lately, is looking up different setups for the techniques he taught. And use those setups when I roll. I've had a high success with my techniques, mostly because my partner doesn't know what I'm about to do now.
    And like before, when someone asks, I tell them what I did. Not to be a dick, or to teach a class, but because I get better with better partners. I don't want to roll with a guy I can dominate.

    SO! I've decided, to keep my mouth shut 99% percent of class and if someone asks me something, just gonna call for an instructor to answer their question.

    I'm not upset about not getting my blue, and I understand why he said that. Hell, he's had his black belt for 8 years and owns a bjj school. I trust him more than myself when it comes to bjj.

    I feel better after writing this. But I would like to hear everyone's thoughts as well. Feel free to flame on!

    Keeping your mouth shut is a good plan, but my guess is that you still haven't figured out why he didn't promote you. You're in the ballpark, but not quite there I'm guessing.

    He's probably not concerned at all with you seeking additional information outside of class or trying out **** when you're rolling that you learned elsewhere. I'd bet that you've probably come off as an asshole with your training partners somehow.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 3:57pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Since I was a former instructor, I'm going to argue from the other side. Heck, I had this conversation with someone who eventually quit because he couldn't grasp the concept.

    Your story and actions appear to have created a two fold problem in my opinion.

    ANOTHER area that I believe is getting confused, is I don't always follow the steps the way he teaches them when I roll. MEANING: He teaches a technique or setup, I drill it to a 'T'. But when I roll, I can hear him tell me to do 'X' or 'Y'. And when I start my partner knows what's coming, cause he drilled it to, so my chances just dropped. BUT what I have been doing lately, is looking up different setups for the techniques he taught. And use those setups when I roll. I've had a high success with my techniques, mostly because my partner doesn't know what I'm about to do now.
    And like before, when someone asks, I tell them what I did. Not to be a dick, or to teach a class, but because I get better with better partners. I don't want to roll with a guy I can dominate.
    1) An assistant or the instructor is telling you to do techniques and you made the decision to "do your own thing" during class.

    I know it sounds counter intuitive, but I used to tell students that "partner A can only use sweeps" to make it harder for them to pull the technique off. Then you have to work harder at feints, footwork and the actual technique to make it land.

    Follow me?

    Now, you do your own thing which makes it harder for all the white belts in class. You see domination, where I see a hard headed, but hardworking student. I'm old school, if the blue belt was pulled out and you received a stripe, it was old school embarrassment. It's a form of attitude adjustment.

    2)
    So I went outside of the gym and got a weight lifting routine, drill routine, game plan and flow chart. (A few weeks later I started to dominate the other white belts) When someone asked, I would tell them that I got with someone outside of the school and they helped me create a plan. I wasn't lying or bitter. Just told them I loved it. One day my BB heard me, but didn't say anything.
    The bjjihad of old would laugh and say you were a "creonte." Obviously, you don't have split loyalties, but if I heard half of the above I'd get the wrong idea.

    While I agree with slam, you have to remember everyone has an ego. EVERYONE. So, depending on what he heard, he may think you were training outside of class, with a different school and ignoring HIS school and your partners instruction.

    This is the important part of your test.
    "You need to really listen to the guys around you. They've put in a lot of time and paid their dues. You can really learn a lot from the guys that have already walked this path."
    I base all of my current discourse on this post. He's telling you EXACTLY what you are doing wrong in class. Rank promotion isn't just about techniques, attendance, application or skill, it is also about ego and your attitude as well. Get a supporting membership and read Jnp's and Yrkoon9's threads. You'll learn all about work, skill and silly promotion drama.
  5. blackmonk is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Austin, TX
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 3:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    9
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You sound way too concerned with belts, or who-taps-who. Quit keeping score, and you'll save yourself a lot of mental anguish, in the long run.

    The BJJ belt system is far too arbitrary to worry yourself about, because it doesn't represent an objective standard. Furthermore, most people I know in BJJ have been either socially promoted or socially ignored.

    *edit - JNP is a great example of this, as well as zapruder. JNP should have been a black belt a longass time ago, but doesn't get promoted because of stupid, stupid politics. Zap just got his after being overdue for years upon years.
  6. AKRhino is offline
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    Nov 2007
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    Fairbanks, Alaska
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 4:14pm


     Style: Brazillian Jiu Jitsu

    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "After that, he promotes 5 people to blue belt. All of which I've submitted regularly, 2 of which joined after I did, and none that can submit me. (3 are bigger than me)"

    When you say this, it makes me think you don't get it
  7. blackmonk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 4:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's also much more to grappling than who can submit who. The BB at my gym can submit me after 10 mins of heavy groundwork, but I can take him down and disengage from him almost at will. Which is more practical? Furthermore, who gives a ****?

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 4:51pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackmonk View Post
    The BJJ belt system is far too arbitrary to worry yourself about, because it doesn't represent an objective standard. Furthermore, most people I know in BJJ have been either socially promoted or socially ignored.
    I agree, but I think this is more his attitude, white belt syndrome I SUBMIT EVERYONE STFU, than the crap those two went through.
  9. blackmonk is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 5:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: belt and jacket wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is definitely attitude. I only brought up jnp and zap as live examples of the inefficiency of the system.

    Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
  10. goodlun is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2014 5:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is a thought stop worrying about the color of the cloth that keeps your jacket held in place.

    BTW Taping white belts and blue belts doesn't mean ****. Even if you are also a blue or a white belt. You need to focus on learning and not on winning.

    There is no "Winning" at white belt.

    ANOTHER area that I believe is getting confused, is I don't always follow the steps the way he teaches them when I roll. MEANING: He teaches a technique or setup, I drill it to a 'T'. But when I roll, I can hear him tell me to do 'X' or 'Y'. And when I start my partner knows what's coming, cause he drilled it to, so my chances just dropped.
    How about this fucking concept rolling isn't competing its about learning.
    Learning how to pull of a technique against a guy that just drilled it as well and knows its coming is a hell of a lot more useful than getting the drop on another newbie.
    One will take you further in your BJJ career the other will make you a great white belt.

    BUT what I have been doing lately, is looking up different setups for the techniques he taught. And use those setups when I roll. I've had a high success with my techniques, mostly because my partner doesn't know what I'm about to do now.
    Cool so you can beat white belts who don't have much experience by using stuff that they have not been introduced to yet. Yeah that is going to take you far. Tell me how well that works on the higher belts.

    The best teacher I have been to doesn't let higher belts use techniques against white belts that the white belts havn't been exposed to yet. This allows the higher belt to further refine timing and technique and gives the lower belt something to work with.

    And like before, when someone asks, I tell them what I did. Not to be a dick, or to teach a class, but because I get better with better partners. I don't want to roll with a guy I can dominate.
    Hey how about you let the guy who is being paid to teach the class teach the class.
    Maybe he has a better long term perspective than you do.
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