Thread: Judo Skill Progession Strategy
3/12/2014 3:47pm, #1
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Judo Skill Progession Strategy
I wanted to pick the brains of Bullshidos assembled Judokas on training strategies for Judo.
I'm currently a newly minted orange belt, training three times a week at my local dojo. So far I've taken a pretty laissez-faire attitude to training; I generally show up without a plan, follow along with whatever technique the instructors teach that day, then try out whatever comes to mind during randori. My philosophy was that, as a beginner, I should just go along with, the flow and let the learning happen. Lately, though, I've started to feel like I'm stalling in my progression, and that it would be in my best interest to hammer out a personal strategy. The problem is, I'm not sure how I should go about that.
Should I pick a few throws I like to do, and drill them in uchi-komi and randori to the exclusion of any others?
Should I pick the throws I am completely ass-useless with and try to bring them up to par?
Should I spend certain blocks of time on specific categories of throws( "This month I'll only drill the ashi-waza. Next month I'll dedicate to koshi-waza.")
I'm interested in hearing your opinions, and of hearing any training tips or strategies you have used to improve your judo game.
3/12/2014 6:56pm, #2
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Try to work on a few go-to moves. Preferrably ones that work for different circumstances, such as one forward throw, one turning throw, one ashi-waza. Once you've got those throws down, keep working on them, but try understand to how their core movements might transfer to other takedowns. For instance, the reap of an Osoto Gari transfers well to Uchi Mata.
By focusing on just a few throws, you'll actually have something that you can use effectively sooner. Once you've got those principles down, you'll have opened a door to a whole family of related techniques.
Bouncing around to different techniques can sometimes provide insight, but if you're doing too many different types of movements, you can spread yourself too thin and suck at a lot of them for a long time. If in one class, if you're doing forward throws, turning throws, lifts, footsweeps, trips, and sacrifice throws, you're probably doing too much as a beginner. I'm sure your coach wouldn't do this with beginners, but try to avoid this if you're working on your own and trying to learn basic stuff.
3/12/2014 7:17pm, #3
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
I'm interested in hearing some wisdom in the subject as well.
I'm a yellow belt who restarted Judo in January after half a year without being able to pratice and who have been since been training 3x 1.5/2h a week (plus strengh training and conditioning in the remaining days, 1 off).
In my club we usually spend more time doing randori than drilling technique (and don't spend as much time as I would like on each drill) and focus more on ne waza than in tachi waza. As a result Iīm feeling much more progress on the ground than on my feet. While I love ground grappling, being a Judoka and not being able to throw anyone who is not a lot lighter/weaker is sad.
My strategies at the moment:
Iīm a bit of a slow learner and don't see well without glasses, thereīs a lot of details I donīt pick during class so Iīve been trying to use youtube videos to get a few more tips. Helped me already a lot with passing the guard (BJJ stuff). Ofc I also use all the help I can from instructor and more experienced pratitioners I can but class time is allways short for that and more talking means less praticing.
Since Osoto Gari is one of the few thows I sometimes can actualy pull in standing randori I've decided to focus on it for a while and use every chance I have to drill it until I get "good" with it. Iīm going to be a one trick poney for a while but better than being a no trick poney and just doing feints of moves I canīt actually pull (and counters), I gess.... Ofc that when Sensei tells me to drill something else thatīs what Iīm going to do.
Last edited by Wolfskin; 3/12/2014 7:51pm at .
3/12/2014 10:26pm, #4
Well, gentlemen (assuming you are all men), it's a bit of a can of worms you've opened. There are quite a few great threads in this section of bullshido and in the Basic Techniques and Advanced Techniques section. Judoka_uk posted a ton of stuff that will help you out, and I kibitzed in on a lot of his posts as well.
My main focus with beginners is on fundamentals. These include grip (kumi kata), posture (shisei) and movement (shintai and the related tai sabaki). Without those, focusing on techniques will make for a slow and arduous process of learning. Not that it isn't anyway, but without the fundamentals (kihon) you won't, in my experience at least make much progress. If you are a very gifted athlete, you could prove me wrong, but once you got to a level where everyone is a gifted athlete, you'd find out I was right more or less.
I suggest each of you post video of yourselves doing judo.
As far as throws go, how is your Tsurikomi Goshi? Ever practice that throw? Even know what it is? Can you throw right and left from your favored side (righty or lefty?) ? Can you throw uke with control of yourself and him? Do you maintain a right or left shizentai and move in tsugi ashi when you do randori, or do you shuffle your feet back and forth, on your heels at times ?
I prefer to throw as much as possible. This is tough if you do not have a floating floor, though. Moving practice is better than static. When you are doing a drill, try to combine grip-move-throw into the drill, although you may have to break that down into pieces. When you get to a sticking point, analyze the problem, and figure out a drill to train the issue, then put it back together and see what happens.Falling for Judo since 1980
3/12/2014 10:29pm, #5
If you guys would also give examples of specific problems you have, that would help as well.Falling for Judo since 1980
3/13/2014 3:42pm, #6
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
I have been doing Judo for 3 1/2 years now so you can take that into consideration.
The first thing I would ask is this, are you a competitor or just in it for the sake of learning Judo? If you want to be a competitor, you should pick 3 or so throws that you feel comfortable with and practice them in every situation you can think of. When competing you shouldn't be wasting time on the mat trying to decide which throw you are going to attempt. You should grip and throw. If you have no plans to compete, pick the coolest throw you have been shown and practice it until it looks good.
Personally, I consider myself a competitor. I have picked 3 or so throws that I call my go-to throws. Whenever I get the chance I practice those throws over and over.
As far as stalling out, I would say just RELAX. If you feel you are stalling out because you get thrown in randori or because your throws aren't successful remember how long you have been training. I emphasize relax because it was only when I stopped being so tense in randori that I was actually able to do what I wanted to.
Once you decide what you are there for you can think about a competition strategy or a learning strategy.
3/13/2014 6:06pm, #7
Even if you're not a competitor, judo is just one of those things where it's better to go deep than broad. Just don't pick some stupid thing to specialise in, and don't get obbsessed with some trick variation until you can do the regular version of what ever throws you've picked.
3/13/2014 10:53pm, #8
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Hey guys, just back from a judo class to weigh in. First off, thanks to the guys who replied, I appreciate any and all advice I can get.
I'll try to touch on stuff in a few categories.
So far I've concentrated pretty heavily on Uchi-Mata, since it just "feels" right whenever I attempt it. I still find it pretty sloppy, but it's coming along to the point where I can throw with it around 40% of the time. A lot of times I end up doing too little kuzushi and just hooking uke's leg with my heel, or whiffing entirely. I plan on really drilling my uchi-komi on this one to get uke further up on my hip, and drilling movements on my own to get my head lower and leg higher. Other than that, I'm not sure where to go with it.
Other throws I attempt less frequently and with much less success are uki-goshi, Sasae-tsurikomi-ashi, Ippon-seoi-nage, Ouchi-gari and some kind of Tani-toshi/ Ura-nage jugfuck. Uki-Goshi and... (I'll call it Tan-otoshii)... tend to be opportunistic "Hey, look, I'm pretty close to this guys waist" throws, Sasae- is my "I think this guy has realized uchi-mata is all I got, better change it up" throw. Ippon (from the collar) and Ouchi Gari are pretty much just hail marys.
One thing I find is that I am pretty shite on combinations. I mean, I watch a lot of combos closely, and I understand how one throw can set up another, but when I'm in randori I can never think more than one move ahead. I just shuffle around and go all in on a throw when I "remember" one.
This is one area where I think I am seeing some improvement, but overall I know I'm still lacking. My posture is pretty bad, as I have a tendency to hunch in when trying to get my initial grips, and often go in for throws off balance in my eagerness to get inside ukes arms. I'm not sure how to improve my posture other than making an effort to keep it in mind.
My gripping is getting better in small ways. I find that I more naturally grip with my pinky, ring and middle fingers much more than with the fore-finger, which is something I kept hearing when I started. I also "evolved" into embracing the "Iron grip, noodle arms" mentality, instead of the usual stiff-arm robot fight style. I essentially have no gripping strategy, though. I grab for sleeve and lapel if they're available, and anything in reach if they're not.
Footwork is ridiculous, but less ridiculous than it used to be. I have learned after many sweeps to not cross my feet, and to keep off my heels (mostly).
I've been to two tournaments, shortly after I got my yellow belt. In the first one I got a bronze medal. First fight I sized up my tall lanky opponent, assumed that he'd go for a big top grip and decided I'd get in deep and grab his waist when he did. That all came to pass, I threw him with my sloppy ura-nage, tani-otoshi casserole for waza, then lost to osaekomi when the guy scrambled on top of me. Second match I threw my opponent with a desperate uchi-mata, think I got a yuko or waza, then managed to pin him for osaekomi. Third match I got taken down, escaped osaekomi, then got ipponed with tai otoshi.
Second tournament I lost both matches. First got taken down with Ouchi Gari and pinned. Second I tried to ura-nage my opponent when he came in for koshi guruma. I ended up getting him up but didn't get the rotation, landed on my back with him on top, Ippon. (busted a rib, too!)
I think of myself as a recreational competitor. I'm not going to gear my life around training for competition, but I'd like to take part in any tournaments that are convenient to attend.
Anyway, I think that's a big enough wall of text for now. Thanks for reading, I appreciate any feed back.
3/14/2014 3:36am, #9
If you can hit uchi-mata 40% of the time, that is pretty damn good.
Even the good black-belts I train with, guys who will inevitably throw me with an uchi-mata every time we randori, probably aren't hitting it one out of three attempts.
Anyway, if you want something to combo up with the uchi-mata, you can try following up a failed one by clipping their leg with a ko-soto-gari as you bring your swinging leg back down.
Last edited by CrackFox; 3/14/2014 3:40am at .
3/14/2014 8:43am, #10
Uchimata to kosotogari or kouchigari or vice-versa is a pretty common combination.