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  1. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2013 12:36am

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    restraint and control. playing with the concept.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI9OmQtfUPU




    Wanted to get some thoughts,

    Been playing around with restraint and control and trying to make what is pretty much the lowest percentage option actualy work.

    And this is going to be a spazzy thread I barely have cohesive posts anyway and this is a half formed brainstorm pretty much.

    What I have found I liked is that two on one arm control the pull through and the collar and tie sorta. I don't really like the gooseneck and mostly don't see the point.


    My issue with the gooseneck is that pain compliance does not move people unless they wan't to be moved. If the pain dosen't work. (and I have seen broken/dislocated?) wrists from people doing it hard. Then you are not in a good position
    to mechanicly move a guy. Which is the best result. Also they can turn and face re grapple and punch if you are one up.
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 8/18/2013 12:58am at .
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  2. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2013 12:47am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just getting the brain started off here.

    I cant punch. I can't push, I can't neck grab, I can,t really drop people on their head.

    I start by using at least two guys.
    What I like to do. For the most part I can go straight for two on one arm. Grab the wrist and prop the elbow, For the most part that is about it. The elbow bar is just wacked on and off and the guy I am dragging out does not look like he is getting killed.

    I can drag an 80 year old grandma safley without looking like an arsehole.

    Big guys can staunch or thrash at which point I tend to figure four that arm by just supporting the wrist grab. Using almost a kimura method and a bit of hand swichy can hammer lock which is about as good as a standing arm restraint gets.

    If that fails or I am in danger of getting nailed I shoot for the back and just waist grab or full nelson or there is a weird hold I don't know the name off which is pretty much grabbing both arms behind the back with one arm.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  3. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2013 12:54am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    going up though the middle is a collar tie wrist control affair. Thai grapple?

    And the base of this is entering though punches or the threat there of. Either go for the pull though two on one like the video or duck under and take back.

    If I can get the guy bent over I shoot for a arm neck control and work from there.
    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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  4. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2013 11:10am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My brother's a bouncer, and we spent some time screwing around with different holds and stuff. He's a big guy but with no training. One of the ones that gave us the best success was getting a front headlock, then once you can put some weight down on their back, switch to double underhooks and get a palm-to-palm grip if you can (or grab two handfuls of shirt if you can). Not sure if there's a technical name for this.
  5. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2013 3:25pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Er, well, I got an idiot out the door at work last night by stepping inside the arc of his right-arm bottle-swing, trapping his right arm against his head/neck in a standing arm-triangle until he dropped the bottle.

    Then, I released my gable-grip from behind his neck so I could drop my left hand down to behind the top of his right leg and did a ninety-degree turn so my front was against his right side. Once he was hoisted into a nice high-C, carrying him past the exit and dropping him outside was as good as done.

    Total elapsed time: a couple of seconds at most--mostly because the idiot was already near the exit when he tried his bottle-swing.

    Is that what you mean by 'restraint and control'?
  6. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2013 12:00am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    My brother's a bouncer, and we spent some time screwing around with different holds and stuff. He's a big guy but with no training. One of the ones that gave us the best success was getting a front headlock, then once you can put some weight down on their back, switch to double underhooks and get a palm-to-palm grip if you can (or grab two handfuls of shirt if you can). Not sure if there's a technical name for this.
    Yeah there is sort of a shoot defence that does kind of that. It is frowned upon in MMA circles but is intuitive. It works but a really good grappler can take advenatage of it.

    I Have found some head arm stuff that will put a person straight out if done right from that position. I like head arm a bit better as it protects the from the squirrel grip a bit better.

    With the collar tie. I find the head can go down and give all of those sorts of positions to play from.

    Without the damn sexy shoulder throw. here is the collar tie head snap.


    I take a much tighter collar tie in theory to prevent me being punched.
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 8/19/2013 12:05am at .
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  7. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2013 12:08am

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    did I say side choke? I meant shoulder lock. Look this one is golden for guys who can get away with it.

    Pushing the limits for what I can do.



    You do see that tighter collar tie though.
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  8. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2013 12:20am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand View Post
    Er, well, I got an idiot out the door at work last night by stepping inside the arc of his right-arm bottle-swing, trapping his right arm against his head/neck in a standing arm-triangle until he dropped the bottle.

    Then, I released my gable-grip from behind his neck so I could drop my left hand down to behind the top of his right leg and did a ninety-degree turn so my front was against his right side. Once he was hoisted into a nice high-C, carrying him past the exit and dropping him outside was as good as done.

    Total elapsed time: a couple of seconds at most--mostly because the idiot was already near the exit when he tried his bottle-swing.

    Is that what you mean by 'restraint and control'?
    Yes.

    Look if you can take that position and osoto the guys leg. You can take them for a trip to the shops and they pretty much can't stop you.
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  9. Scrapper is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/19/2013 8:34am

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I had great success with standing arm-triangle. Another favorite was duckunder to secure the back (standing) then secure wrists and pin them against the hips (either with crossed arms or not. Crossed is better).

    When I worked in mental health, this was called a "basket hold."
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  10. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2013 1:27pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Yes.

    Look if you can take that position and osoto the guys leg. You can take them for a trip to the shops and they pretty much can't stop you.
    O-soto is indeed a good finisher when there's enough room, and I rely on it a lot. This case had the idiot next to the door, so hoisting him (not a usual choice for me by any means) allowed me to walk his left thigh into the exit door's crash-bar (it's a fire-door) without having to play too much footsy with him in tight quarters.

    It was nice of him to open the door for me...

    EDIT: On the first of the above vids, whenever I'm in a position similar to that, I more often end up finishing with a kubi-nage than a seoi-nage, though if my arms were shorter that might not be the case.

    The second vid is really interesting as it seems to show fore-arm and hand positioning more commonly seen in RNCs, but in this case applied to an arm-triangle. This version also appears to necessitate front-to-side positioning common to neither (but seen in other techniques like the initial hoist in the high-C).
    Last edited by Vieux Normand; 8/19/2013 1:39pm at .
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