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  1. allmastyles is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2013 8:34pm


     Style: beginner

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Info and Comparison Between Keysi, Kajukenbo and Krav Maga

    If I didn't post this in the right place please link it to the right one. Also, if there is a link about this topic elsewhere, cool. OK. I tried to search for as much info on this and got some insight.

    Since seeing Jack Reacher (Tom Cruise) this week, the infamous street fight he gets into with the group of local bar thugs, I did some research as to what street fighting style he was trained in. Before research, I assumed it was something like Krav Maga. But it was actually the Keysi system, I guess the same with the later Batman flicks. The similar style seemed to also be the one Liam Neeson trained in for the Taken series.

    After checking out various YouTube videos on Keysi, Krav Maga, Kajukenbo, I noticed similarities in the three combat styles. The main thing was the elbow strikes and speed punches.

    But I had a few questions to ask of students who have studied these styles.

    First, I would assume all the styles include actually heavy duty contact/sparring with gloves, protection, etc. and the definite risks of some nasty injuries. Are the techniques harder to learn than more time tested mixed MA?

    Would you feel you would have to be in top condition before getting into these styles or do the classes have the conditioning training?

    Which style would take the longest to get the basic techniques down?

    Do you see one style more effective than another? And I realize classes and instructors are varied. Also these styles don't seem to include grappling techniques, or perhaps there are some.

    Anyway, please let us know if you have anything to share pro and con and recommendations. Btw, I'm asking this for an older dude like me in his mid sixties, oh boy. Getting older is not fun, believe me? Thanks. Styles
    Last edited by allmastyles; 5/21/2013 9:09pm at . Reason: Spelling
  2. Carlos13th is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2013 10:13pm


     Style: krav maga, bjj, mma,

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See whats in your area go along and try it ut. The quality of all three styles tends to vary greatly depending on the instructor. Be wary of any club that doesn't spar. Many reality based systems make the to deadly to spar claim if the instructor makes that claim get out of there. You can drill all you like but you cant fight without testing your skills.
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2013 12:42pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by allmastyles View Post
    After checking out various YouTube videos on Keysi, Krav Maga, Kajukenbo, I noticed similarities in the three combat styles. The main thing was the elbow strikes and speed punches.
    If those are the three choices you are looking at I would go Kajukenbo, Keysi, Krav; in that order. But as said above there is not a lot of quality control in the schools. So your best bet is to go to one and see who spars the most. They all have some stuff that is usefull, and all have gaps. But that is with most martial arts.

    If you go in, and they are using focus mits at full speed after showing you a technique, good. If they are doing one step sparring, then you need to ask when the full sparring is, and come back to see it on that day.

    Some similarites in the systems in the Spear/cover/arms up technique. A lot of combative/RBSD schools use this as a reflex reaction/startle response. You cover then move to something else. It's a good option depending on what your goal is. The thing they do next is important. Do they cover and then go for takedown, angle away with strikes, or move forward with strikes. Or do they cover and then go for a ball grab, eye rake, or throat grab. The second not as good as the first.

    Those are things to look for. The other thing to look for is a school that is convenient and has an atmosphere that makes you comfortable.

    Good luck on your search.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  4. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2013 3:50pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by allmastyles View Post
    The similar style seemed to also be the one Liam Neeson trained in for the Taken series.
    Liam Neeson trained in Mastro Silat Defense Systems, created by Fred Mastro, for Taken. They brought in a different Silat instructor for Taken 2.



    This is Mr. Mastro teaching a seminar alongside my Kali teacher, Kuya Doug Marcaida, aka "The Longhaired Guy with the Tomahawk".

  5. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2013 5:17pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I assumed that Liam Neeson learned WW2 combatives for those fight scenes, since there's so many backhand shuto.
  6. Aikironin21 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2013 3:12am


     Style: Aikido, Kajukembo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like you said, "Instructors and classes vary". Where I have trained Kaj, there is a ton of conditioning, so you would want a base level of conditioning and flexibility. Out of a two hour class, almost half of it is conditioning, and goes right into line work practicing kicking and punching techniques. After that, depends on where we are at, as far as testing, or tournaments. Usually we go into, forms, grab arts, or advanced counter, club or knife techniques, or sparring. When I was younger, we didn't have to wear gloves or pads to spar at the main dojo. The first two times I broke my nose was in Kaj class. Now, though, I believe pads are required for sparring, and head contact, is lite.
    Right now I am healing a shoulder injury, which derailed my return to Kaj, after decades of being away from it. Starting over from white belt is a drag, but things are a little different from when I was younger.
  7. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2013 11:30am


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by allmastyles View Post
    After checking out various YouTube videos on Keysi, Krav Maga, Kajukenbo, I noticed similarities in the three combat styles. The main thing was the elbow strikes and speed punches.
    I've studied Krav, but have looked very seriously at Keysi and Kajukenbo.

    First, I would assume all the styles include actually heavy duty contact/sparring with gloves, protection, etc. and the definite risks of some nasty injuries.
    Your first assumption is probably not correct. Many Krav studios exist as part of larger programs. TKD, etc... Its geared towards soccer moms. Krav has suffered from overmarketing, and as a result has some pretty shitty quality control. Look at videos of Itay Gil - and that is how you want to train if you really want to use Krav.

    Keysi is probably in even worse shape, after having a huge shakeup (Andy Norman now runs Defence Lab). They offer instructor programs where you train for a couple of weeks, and then you're an instructor.

    Frankly, all of these styles that you see in movies (Krav, Systema, and Keysi) suffer from severe hype problems.

    Kajukenbo will at least offer you with the chance of getting instruction from a teacher who has spent years learning the art. You still need to check out a sparring class to make sure they spar hard (and often).

    Are the techniques harder to learn than more time tested mixed MA? Which style would take the longest to get the basic techniques down?
    In the case of Krav and Keysi - definitely not. Krav is a combatives system - designed to get you effectively quickly. Not a lot of fluff. Same thing with Keysi. Does that mean that they deliver on that promise... well that depends on how they/you train.

    Kajukenbo has a mix of martial arts, so maybe a bit easier than MMA (based on the mix of grappling and stand up normally seen). I can't imagine their ground game being more complex than the wrestling/BJJ/Judo normally seen in MMA.

    Would you feel you would have to be in top condition before getting into these styles or do the classes have the conditioning training?
    If you're out of shape, train. That will get you in shape, and you'll be doing something fun.

    Do you see one style more effective than another? And I realize classes and instructors are varied. Also these styles don't seem to include grappling techniques, or perhaps there are some.
    Kajukenbo does have some Jitz and Judo. Krav has some clinchwork.

    Now by "work" do you mean in the cage, or for self defense? Self defense, yes they can all work, so long as you find a knowledgable instructor and a school that spars hard.
    Again, finding a knowledgable instructor in Krav or Keysi may be difficult due to their franchising programs.

    I wouldn't recommend either Keysi or Krav for a direct to cage transition. Too little clinch and groundwork. Kajukenbo would be better.

    Btw, I'm asking this for an older dude like me in his mid sixties, oh boy. Getting older is not fun, believe me? Thanks. Styles
    Hmm. Here's the recommendation: Kajukenbo. And if you want to be able to fight, you'll have to spar. That does mean risking injury.

    Another thought: Master's boxing is starting to really catch on... it'll let you spar hard, without so much risk for injury (if that's a concern).
  8. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2013 12:11pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've seen old kaju guys but not old krav or keysi guys.
  9. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/12/2013 12:36pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't Krav.

    Just don't.
  10. Corum Irsei is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2013 5:21am


     Style: Taekwondo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander View Post
    Don't Krav.

    Just don't.
    Because it won't be of any use in the ring/cage or because it won't help in general?

    Just want to know because I've seen a lot of Krav advertisements/flyers lately. I have yet to find a Keysi/Silat school, though.
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