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  1. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 2:14pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Makiwara training.

    I've mostly looked at the makiwara at the dojo and then sometimes hit it a few times. Lately I've been side kicking one that's mounted on a cement post. But serious makiwara training? I was thinking it was passe.

    Here's a post stolen from Peter Carbone's Fb page. He's a life long karateka, trained for fifty years or so and made a couple dozen trips to Okinawa - specialized in weapons. Google him and you'll find his schedule for seminars and where he teaches and such.

    ================================================== ====

    "Makiwara training was originated in Okinawa and is part of their culture. It is an essential part of old style Okinawa Karate. Very few do this type of training today.
    I started in 1973. My goal is always 10,000 each week. Depending on the time I have for training, generally, it is between 7 to 9,000 weekly, with 1,000 minimum to 3,000 at each session. The Makiwara experience cannot be explained. However, it is easily understood, through long, diligent, consistent practice. The experience happens somewhere between 200 to 500 strikes. When you have reached that goal, it means you have started Makiwara training." "My goal is getting more people involved with old style training, but it is not for everyone."

    Asked, "Pete, how is the arthritis?" he responds, "That is a misconception, of getting arthritis doing Makiwara. I have been to Okinawa 27 times and seen MANY who do the training and not one has the affliction. I am 67, in May and feel pretty good. However, I know many with arthritis and do not do Makiwara training with hips and knees replaced.
    Of course you need a good teacher who understands the correct training."

    Fred Ettish added, "I do anywhere from 1700+ - 3400+ hand strikes on the makiwara. Try to do it daily. I can not imagine training w/o doing makiwara. Been doing makiwara seriously since 1979, am 57, and no arthritis at all."
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    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  2. Resonance10 is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 2:38pm

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     Style: Taiji/Hsingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any medicine applied to that, like Dit Da Jow?

    If the benefits can't be explained I can't see much success in convincing others to try it, especially if it fucks the hands up like that. Can the benefits be demonstrated in some way?
  3. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 2:55pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are some pretty harsh videos on youtube of Okinawan Karate guys beating themselves up. One is an old dude beating the **** out of a rock. I'll post it when I get home if no one else does.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  4. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 3:02pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It sounds like he went on about how it wasn't detrimental, but not why its beneficial.
  5. Tetsumusha is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 4:30pm


     Style: Karate, w/ a side of judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The purpose of makiwara training is to strengthen the structure of your strikes. As you hit it, the resistance forces your muscles, tendons and joints to support the force of the strike throughout your entire body. This can be done with a heavy bag, to a point, but because the makiwara is a spring it will resist more strongly as you are able to hit it harder, while the heavy bag will swing away more (and thus, resist you less) the harder you hit it. The skin becoming calloused and the bones becoming denser are side-effects of makiwara training, and should not be the intent of makiwara training. Does that help explain the benefit at all?
  6. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 4:46pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsumusha View Post
    The purpose of makiwara training is to strengthen the structure of your strikes. As you hit it, the resistance forces your muscles, tendons and joints to support the force of the strike throughout your entire body. This can be done with a heavy bag, to a point, but because the makiwara is a spring it will resist more strongly as you are able to hit it harder, while the heavy bag will swing away more (and thus, resist you less) the harder you hit it. The skin becoming calloused and the bones becoming denser are side-effects of makiwara training, and should not be the intent of makiwara training. Does that help explain the benefit at all?
    Sounds like you need a heavier heavy bag. I've got a 110lb heavy bag. It gives plenty of resistance. Plus you can very the different angles and punches that you are using. I was under the impression that the purpose was actually to make the bones, muscles, and tendons denser and stronger.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  7. Resonance10 is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 4:46pm

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     Style: Taiji/Hsingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsumusha View Post
    The purpose of makiwara training is to strengthen the structure of your strikes. As you hit it, the resistance forces your muscles, tendons and joints to support the force of the strike throughout your entire body. This can be done with a heavy bag, to a point, but because the makiwara is a spring it will resist more strongly as you are able to hit it harder, while the heavy bag will swing away more (and thus, resist you less) the harder you hit it. The skin becoming calloused and the bones becoming denser are side-effects of makiwara training, and should not be the intent of makiwara training. Does that help explain the benefit at all?
    It does, and was pretty much what I thought would be said. It was why I asked about medicine as you are basically subscribing to the theory that by damaging the hand you make it stronger. This may be true but it seems to me there would be a cost to this type of strengthening.

    If its not the intent whats the intent? And what is the benefit of what is intended?
  8. Moenstah is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 5:05pm


     Style: 空手 / &#2147

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    old guy hitting a rock, Morio Higaonna perhaps? Here is a vid



    and his hands look like this:

    Even from a distance his hands stand out, shaped like a mole. Seems that he can hit like a truck with them though. Skip to the 1:00:00 mark for the makiwara part of this vid:



    In the pangai noon dvd series is quite some time dedicated to the explanation of hand conditiong, e.g. there are also other exercises demonstrated such as the gripping of rough stones from a bowl.
  9. Resonance10 is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 5:18pm

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     Style: Taiji/Hsingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsumusha View Post
    The purpose of makiwara training is to strengthen the structure of your strikes. As you hit it, the resistance forces your muscles, tendons and joints to support the force of the strike throughout your entire body. This can be done with a heavy bag, to a point, but because the makiwara is a spring it will resist more strongly as you are able to hit it harder, while the heavy bag will swing away more (and thus, resist you less) the harder you hit it. The skin becoming calloused and the bones becoming denser are side-effects of makiwara training, and should not be the intent of makiwara training. Does that help explain the benefit at all?
    Duh re read your post, totally read it wrong. I see what you are saying. It does seem though that the hardening of the hands is the point for some practitioners. See Higaonna vids above.
  10. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2013 8:42pm

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     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, with makiwara, one will get accustomed to the neurological feedback of hitting a target that more closely resembles a hard human skull--in terms of feedback--than even a heavy bag can offer. It helps one get used to bare-knuckle collisions against less-yielding targets, and thus aids in the development of a properly-stoic disregard for mere pain.

    This accomplished, one can more likely--and more often--withstand such impacts in less-friendly encounters, shrug off the pain inherent in one's bare knuckles smashing into bone, and keep fighting as long as is necessary.
    Last edited by Vieux Normand; 2/25/2013 8:45pm at .
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