Kobayashi Shorin Ryu

[foxguitar]

Any Kobayashi Shorin Ryu people have any input of the differences between the Shorinkan system of Nakazato or the Shidokan system of Miyahara ?

Just curious , thanks

[thrutch]

Realistically there should be only negligible difference between the styles. They're from the same root style (Chibana) and both are uber-traditionalist so they're unlikely to have branched off too far from each other. Both follow a kata-based syllabus. Hang on.

So, I trained Shorinkan and I've just watched a few Shidokan kata on yt - they are identical.

[Tetsumusha]

I really don't know too much about Shidokan, aside from the fact that Miyahara was a senior student of Chibana and was voted President of the Okinawa Shorin-Ryu Karate-Do Association when Nakazato was made Vice President. Nakazato broke away in the mid-70's to form the Shorinkan, but I don't know why--I assume it was political. Stylistically, they seem to be quite similar (which makes sense, seeing as they are branches of Chibana's system) but Shidokan seems to be a bit softer and more circular.

[foxguitar]

Thanks for the inputs , I had heard Shidokan uses mores Tai Sabaki and uses softer style blocking then the Shorinkan , Im sure both are excellent styles

[thrutch]

Nakazato broke away in the mid-70's to form the Shorinkan, but I don't know why--I assume it was political.

Politics aside it was actually Miyahara who left Chibana. Chibana and Nakazato continued working and teaching together pretty much until Chibana's death. A few of the older guys in the organisation trained with him in the '50s when they were stationed on Okinawa - Eddie Bethea and one or two others have a few stories to share.

[Tetsumusha]

Politics aside it was actually Miyahara who left Chibana. Chibana and Nakazato continued working and teaching together pretty much until Chibana's death. A few of the older guys in the organisation trained with him in the '50s when they were stationed on Okinawa - Eddie Bethea and one or two others have a few stories to share.

Ah, thank you for the clarification! For whatever reason I was under the impression that Miyahara didn't start doing his own thing until after Chibana had passed away. I know that Sensei Bethea taught Nakazato Minoru periodically while he was in Okinawa back in the day, so he has definitely been around long enough to have stories and they are always fun to hear. I'll try to ask him about it the next time he visits.

[foxguitar]

0k time for the oligatory dumb question if you had a choice which of the two organizations would you rather train ? Does one spar more then the other ? i read Nakazato had a reputation of being a great fighter

[thrutch]

Obligatory stock answer - I'd go and do a few classes at each place and choose the one which I liked best.

Seriously mate, I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about almost non-existent differences between the styles.

Not sure about amount of sparring - that will vary from dojo to dojo. The people I met from Robert Rowley's Shorinkan club looked athletic enough, if that's any indication, which it isn't, really.

[foxguitar]

Osu

great answer ,thanks and cheers

[Rock Ape]

Thanks for the inputs , I had heard Shidokan uses mores Tai Sabaki and uses softer style blocking then the Shorinkan , Im sure both are excellent styles

Just from a language point of view

taisabaki 体捌き is a pretty generic term referring to evasive body movement, often associated with rotational or turning action as part of waza. The correct term to mean rotating or turning would be mawashi - 回し

Now to get technical -

mae-irimi-tankan 前入り身転換 = leading leg, advances then body turn
ushiro-irimi-tenkan 後ろ身転換 = rear leg, advances, then body turn
tenkan 転換 = turn on the spot
soto kaiten 外回転 = outer rotation
uchi kaiten = 内回転 inner rotation (both are relative to your training partner)

All of these terms are technically accurate and considered forms of taisbaki which is why, I hope I've illustrated, that the term is very generic and broad in nature.