Wing Chun and Aikido

**Yimchaloi** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 9:52am

Quick question: why don't I see a lot of Wing Chun practictioners or Aikidoka competing in UFC-type stuff? I have a lot of respect for both arts and I think that there are a lot of things that they both have to offer. But the fact remains that I see all other sorts of MA represented, but I don't see any of these guys. I don't mean like... pure stylists. I think with the ruleset of MMA-type fights that it would put a pure Aikidoka at a severe disadvantage for the most part. But are there any successful fighters who have used their Wing Chun or Aikido experience in the ring? Or for that matter, how come we haven't seen any Wing Chun stylists compete and do well in pro boxing or in K-1? My guess is that while these styles are excellent arts and work great for self-defense on the street, that perhaps they aren't /as/ effective in a ring against a guy who's spent years training for a specific rule-set and who is conditioned to take a beating and deliver one for 3 or more 5 minute rounds. Maybe?

I am sincerely NOT trying to start a flame war or a style vs. style thing. Like I said, I respect both styles and I'm honestly just making an observation hoping that my ignorance can be fixed. Is it just that I'm not following these sports enough or that I'm not looking hard enough, perhaps?

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 9:55am

Moved from the Rupture MMA forum.

*Popcorn*

**ermghoti** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 10:34am

Originally Posted by Yimchaloi

My guess is that while these styles are excellent arts and work great for self-defense on the street, that perhaps they aren't /as/ effective in a ring against a guy who's spent years training for a specific rule-set and who is conditioned to take a beating and deliver one for 3 or more 5 minute rounds.

You're half right.

**Chili Pepper** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 10:40am

Originally Posted by Yimchaloi

My guess is that while these styles are excellent arts and work great for self-defense on the street, that perhaps they aren't /as/ effective in a ring against a guy who's spent years training for a specific rule-set and who is conditioned to take a beating and deliver one for 3 or more 5 minute rounds. Maybe?

Take a look at the very early UFC's, when you had pure stylists fighting, and you'll notice that very early on, certain arts dominated: judo, boxing/kickboxing, muay thai, wrestling, BJJ.

There's a very compelling reason for that - all of those arts train against a resisting opponent, using unrehearsed moves, in real time.

Wing chun and aikido do not, and when faced with an opponent who wants to do them harm, rather than a schmoe in a prearranged demonstration, they fall apart.

**Yimchaloi** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 10:59am

To a point I agree. I mean, I think you're exactly correct in what you're saying. Especially in the early UFC's. But that would make it more a matter of training than the actual arts, yeah? I believe a skilled Wing Chun artist could prolly defend himself great on the street. But if he were training to fight full contact, wouldn't he just use the same theories and skills except train a little differently? Instead of prearranged forms, perhaps he'd just spend hours and hours and hours sparring with other artists and working on conditioning? Isn't that sorta what every fighter does? I do Taekwondo, but once I've started doing kickboxing I am working on training and tweaking differently while still using the same basic tools.

Take western wrestling. There are some bad habits that fighters with that background need to tweak when they get into MMA. For example when you worry about being pinned you avoid being on your back. But if you need to worry about someone beating the hell outta you on the ground or choking you out, you really don't wanna give him your back. Even Muay Thai fighters have to train a little different when they get into a cage where someone can take them to the ground. So wouldn't the same hold true to Wing Chun?

**Escrimator** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 11:03am

As a former _unner,I can tell you i did not learn,or see anyone display any technical repertoire that will hold its own against any form of serious grappling, and certainly not against serious striking as you would encounter if you take on a MMA fighter.(or combat sport practicioner.)

Lets add the fact theres no preparation in the way of sparring\contact training,barely any serious conditioning for cardio,strength as part of the sistem. any WC\WT\VT guy wanting to compete would end up throwing away his initial style in favor of the cross-training disciplines he would have to engage in order prepare to comptete,unless hes a total moron.

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 11:05am

Originally Posted by Yimchaloi

I believe a skilled Wing Chun artist could prolly defend himself great on the street.

1. Why do you believe that?
2. Do kids these days not even KNOW the word "probably" any more?

**Yimchaloi** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 11:15am

double-posted, sorry

**Yimchaloi** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 11:17am

Heh. Sorry if my "prolly" is off-putting. I'm actually a big linguaphile, I grew up multi-lingual, and I bore friends with all my linguistics talk. So take my intarwebz dialect with a grain o' salt. :-)

To answer the first question, I believe that someone who has sincerely studied nearly any martial art will be able to hold their own against a random non-martial artist/non-fighter out on the street. Here are the reasons why:

The average joe isn't a professional fighter or an experienced martial artist. Most people have never been in a fist fight, and most people have never been in a high-pressure situation where someone is trying to hit them. A lotta people have never been punched in the nose. Along this same line, most people have never practiced throwing serious punch or a serious kick. People generally try to avoid those situations while martial artists practice those things as a hobby. I believe that alone will give a martial artist the advantage. It would be the same advantage as someone who did wrestling all throughout school. If the practictioner is an athlete, then they should just have faster reflexes and be better prepared for a physical encounter than your average joe.

This is all of course hypothetical. I still think that regardless of style, whoever has the most experience in fighting PERIOD will end up having a strong chance of winning. A guy who's been in a dozen bar fights will prolly - excuse me, probably - do better than a guy who's only ever hit a target in a dojo. But most people aren't fighters, most people don't know how to throw a punch, most people are afraid of getting hit.

I should add tho', that there are of course bad habits that could get you killed in a street fight. My own TKD experience taught me some bad habits that a street fighter could've capitalized on before I started gettin' wise.

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 1/02/2013 11:24am

Originally Posted by Yimchaloi

To answer the first question, I believe that someone who has sincerely studied nearly any martial art will be able to hold their own against a random non-martial artist/non-fighter out on the street.

Okay. Ki Aikido, Capoeira, Yellow Bamboo...

What's your evidence (not theorizing) that the "training" in some martial arts isn't worse than none at all? Some styles teach you to kick in a way that will break your foot, stand in stances you can't move from, and most importantly de-train your striking ability with point-stop and touch sparring.

I'd bet on the average construction worker who can lift heavy objects and swing a sledgehammer over the average karate or kung fu student.

I'd also bet the percentage of karate/kung fu/aikido people who have been punched full-force in the nose is not significantly higher than the percentage of people in the general population who have experienced the same.