TKD - Requesting help with rank verification.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/14/2012 10:35pm

Hello all ye TKD/HKD types. While I haven't practiced TKD/HKD in many years, I have a favor to ask.

I'm closing in on completing an investigation on one Carter Hargrave.

The original thread is a long, but if you have the time, a worthwhile read.

You come in here http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=31636&page=22

TLDR version - Hargrave, after 2 1/2 years in JKD/kempo under Gary Dill branched off, paid for certification and within a couple of years was a GM in the two different arts. Really, take the time and at least browse through the thread. His claim to dan rank begins with TKD and despite his numerous circle jerk organization posted certificates, no instructor is ever claimed for TKD.

I do not believe Hargrave ever had any legitimate dan rank in TKD. Would any of you be so kind as to inquire with the ITF/WTF/ATA, etc, as to anyone under the name of Hargrave having rank in TKD?

Approximate time line would be pre-93.

Additionally, it you have OKLAHOMA friends/acquaintances within the TKD community, please be so kind as to forward my inquiry.

Thanks,

Joe Glimp

aka

hungryjoe

....this thread is BS Staff approved.......

**Dracula** · Posted On: 12/18/2012 2:13am

I skimmed the thread and his website and couldn't find a D.O.B. If you can dig one up then you can search the Kukkiwon's Dan database for rank recognized by the WTF:

http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/ne...nglish/pop.jsp

You can't search without a D.O.B. though. Also you have to have the name exactly as it appears on the certificate otherwise nothing will show up, so if he uses his middle initial or nicknames you'd have to account for that.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/18/2012 8:22pm

Thanks Dracula.

I've already tried the linked data base. While I know his DOB from public records, various name checks brought up nothing, hence the new thread.

My guess is that he has no kukkiwon rank but dojo only. I am hoping some Oklahoma TKD people may stumble across this thread and remember him from the past. He would have been in the Tulsa or Broken Arrow community, I forget which.

Gary Dill has told me Hargrave was a gup belt before starting with him.

Looking back through his claims, he's put 1993 as

Certified Black Belt Tae Kwon Do 1993

http://carterhargrave.com/Carter_Har...tribution.html

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 12/19/2012 8:48am

Do we have any information about who his supposed teacher is in TKD? This may or may not help in the investigation.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 12/19/2012 1:18pm

Originally Posted by Dracula

I skimmed the thread and his website and couldn't find a D.O.B. If you can dig one up then you can search the Kukkiwon's Dan database for rank recognized by the WTF:

http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/ne...nglish/pop.jsp

You can't search without a D.O.B. though. Also you have to have the name exactly as it appears on the certificate otherwise nothing will show up, so if he uses his middle initial or nicknames you'd have to account for that.

You beat me to it.

Heh..found mine.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/19/2012 8:27pm

Originally Posted by Miguksaram

Do we have any information about who his supposed teacher is in TKD? This may or may not help in the investigation.

I was hoping you'd enter this thread. Great work on the Hackworth investigation.

Gary Dill tells me the dojo was on 71st Street in Tulsa. I've had no luck finding cached items, but from Hargrave's own hand when filling out the paperwork to start training with Dill's organization dated 9/19/91.

Past experience-

TKD/Kuk Sool Won
Instructors - Neil Marian Morrow (possibly Morron) Tulsa,OK / Jerry Saiie (sp?) Ft. Smith Arkansas
Rank - Red Belt

PM inbound.

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 12/20/2012 4:17pm

Originally Posted by badsanta

I was hoping you'd enter this thread. Great work on the Hackworth investigation.

Gary Dill tells me the dojo was on 71st Street in Tulsa. I've had no luck finding cached items, but from Hargrave's own hand when filling out the paperwork to start training with Dill's organization dated 9/19/91.

Past experience-

TKD/Kuk Sool Won
Instructors - Neil Marian Morrow (possibly Morron) Tulsa,OK / Jerry Saiie (sp?) Ft. Smith Arkansas
Rank - Red Belt

PM inbound.

Ok...I found contact information for Jerry Salle of Ft. Smith: http://fortsmith.ksw-schools.com/instructor.html

I sent an email to you requesting rank verification for Mr. Hargrave. I could not locate Mr. Morrow/Morron yet.

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 12/20/2012 10:49pm

I received a reply from Mst. Salle. "I will check my books. Did he say where we trained and what year. Thanks Master Jerry Sallee"

I wrote back and told him that I did not have any information on the date only that he trained in Takewondo and Kuk Sul Won and received a black belt and red belt and that he trained with him and some person Tulsa. So hopefully we will get some more information.

**hungryjoe** · Posted On: 12/21/2012 7:06pm

Thank you. He claimed to have trained in Ft. Smith, Arkansas but it wouldn't hurt to include Van Buren as they're across the river from each other.

From Sallee's website -

http://fortsmith.ksw-schools.com/JSallee.html

1979 Opens a Kuk Sool School in Downtown Van Buren.
1984 Opens A Kuk Sool School in Fort Smith, at the corner of 11th and Grand Ave.

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 12/21/2012 8:22pm

Originally Posted by badsanta

Thank you. He claimed to have trained in Ft. Smith, Arkansas but it wouldn't hurt to include Van Buren as they're across the river from each other.

From Sallee's website -

http://fortsmith.ksw-schools.com/JSallee.html

Per Mst. Salle

Originally Posted by Salle

I have look in student files and do not have him listed. Do you a phone number for him. I will give him a call and find out who if he indeed worked out at my school. The other school in Tulsa would be Jon Tulsa Maas. I do not have his number but He can be found on Facebook. Sorry. Thanks jerry Sallee

I still need more information on his TKD connections in order to help confirm or deny his claims.