Head Instructor doesn't remember his teacher's name?

**Silo42** · Posted On: 12/01/2012 3:16am

Ok, so they claim to teach Japanese "Ju Jutsu" which used to be called "Jiu Jitsu" until ground fighting came into play in MMA (according to the site)The kicker is the person claiming to teach it, Larry L. Flournoy, says he was taught Jiu jitsu/ Ju Jutsu by a person in their basement, in Chinatown but, he doesn't remember their name. According to his bio, in his owns words, he doesn't remember his teacher's name:
knightflowermartialarts.com/Work/flournoy5.html

It won't let me put the full link because I am new here. But, sure you can find it from above. If not, the page name is "knightflowermartialarts.com" and head instructor is Larry L. Flournoy.

In his bio he has teacher's names for Karate, Taekwondo and Aikido. But, nothing for Ju Jutsu except for a name he thinks is correct.

My main question is the lineage connection to Ju Jutsu..is there any? Am I missing something when I read the bio? If I am I am sorry for posting this. If I am not, I am wondering how he can claim a Ju Jutsu connection...unless it comes from somewhere else? Did I miss something in the bio? Just curious if anyone else trained with him and what the lineage is....

Again...I see the connection to Karate, Aikido and Taekwondo. Just curious where the Ju Jutsu connection comes into play...plus it is "Ki" Ju Jutsu...where is the lineage to it?

I mean come on...learning Ju Jutsu from some dude's basement/backyard and not remembering his name? Sounds fishy as hell.

**Silo42** · Posted On: 12/01/2012 3:03pm

After looking over the bio again I believe he must have learned from his other teachers who have solid backgrounds AND from the man in Chinatown. It's just a bizarre story about his Ju Jutsu teacher. Especially not knowing his name. It made myself and several other people wonder what the deal was.

**Nickosaurus** · Posted On: 12/01/2012 3:23pm

Originally Posted by Silo42

I mean come on...learning Ju Jutsu from some dude's basement/backyard and not remembering his name? Sounds fishy as hell.

It does and it is a warning sign,

The problem with JJJ is that the quality varies quite a lot, there are good schools out there but plenty that simply do static drills and think they are Ninjas. I went to such a school until after doing online research and finding this site. I always thought it was odd that the senior belts would say if you ever get into a fight don't try a throw when they spend 70% of our time on it but they are right they can't throw properly because static training will only get you so far then you need randori to learn timing.

Moral is, if you are really interested go and check it out but don't sign up to anything on the spot and if you hear they are too deadly to spar get out of there because only dangerous thing about they people I used to train with was how out of whack there opinion of there ability to fight and what they could actually do.

**itwasntme** · Posted On: 12/01/2012 9:48pm

First, I don't know why you are worried about his JJJ training as I can't find anywhere on the site that they offer classes in JJJ.

This next bit sets off an alarm for me:
"Iaido is perhaps the most philosophically oriented of all Japanese martial arts, and it is also one of the least understood. One reason for this may be that the practical aspects of the art overshadow its true essence: perfection of character through commitment to martial practice."

To me, this implies that they think you will learn to fight from a martial art that isn't based on fighting. I have never heard of this martial art before (not saying it doesn't exist), but it seems to be a lot like the Ki Ju Jutsu they offer which they state is like Tai Chi.

The next alarm goes off when I see this:
"While judo includes a variety of rolls, falls, throws, hold downs, chokes, joint-locks, and strikes"

Judo has no strike as far as I know.

This is what I gathered from a 3 minute glance at the site. A more experienced martial artist could probably tell you if I am wrong in any of this.

I would also like to point out that their karate is based in Shotokan which is known for it's general lack of sparring, so if learning to fight is what you want you should probably look elsewhere. Having said that, I could be 100% wrong, so go check these guys out if you are so inclined.

**vaquero de las nalgas** · Posted On: 12/01/2012 11:40pm

Originally Posted by itwasntme

This next bit sets off an alarm for me:
"Iaido is perhaps the most philosophically oriented of all Japanese martial arts, and it is also one of the least understood. One reason for this may be that the practical aspects of the art overshadow its true essence: perfection of character through commitment to martial practice."

To me, this implies that they think you will learn to fight from a martial art that isn't based on fighting. I have never heard of this martial art before (not saying it doesn't exist), but it seems to be a lot like the Ki Ju Jutsu they offer which they state is like Tai Chi.

The next alarm goes off when I see this:
"While judo includes a variety of rolls, falls, throws, hold downs, chokes, joint-locks, and strikes"

Iaido?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iaido

**Naszir** · Posted On: 12/02/2012 1:05am

Itwasntme, judo does contain strikes. They are called atemi waza. They just aren't trained as far as I know except in kata. If you read Kodokan Judo, the strikes are referenced. The nage no kata has a few techniques based off of uke attacking. In the goshin jitsu kata and women's self-defense kata you'll see them done by tori. All that said, it is still incredibly suspect not to know your instructor's name.

**itwasntme** · Posted On: 12/02/2012 5:10am

Originally Posted by vaquero de las nalgas

Iaido?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iaido

Originally Posted by Naszir

Itwasntme, judo does contain strikes. They are called atemi waza. They just aren't trained as far as I know except in kata. If you read Kodokan Judo, the strikes are referenced. The nage no kata has a few techniques based off of uke attacking. In the goshin jitsu kata and women's self-defense kata you'll see them done by tori. All that said, it is still incredibly suspect not to know your instructor's name.

Ah, thanks for the info.

**dewey** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 2:28pm

The fact that he never mentions his Iaido instructor makes me suspicious. Anybody can learn from Sensei Youtube and Shihan Instructional Video. ZNKR Iaido is the most frequently taught style because the instructional material is everywhere.

Bokken jutsu is a joke. Every sword style has bokken techniques...it's how you practice with a partner!

**Silo42** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 4:09pm

My question is about being able to teach Ju Jutsu. If you are qualified to teach it wouldn't you know your teacher's name and history? I don't see Ju Jutsu being taught to him by anyone else, or even Judo for that matter.

-Look under the "What we offer" tab for Judo etc.

**itwasntme** · Posted On: 12/03/2012 5:23pm

Originally Posted by Silo42

My question is about being able to teach Ju Jutsu. If you are qualified to teach it wouldn't you know your teacher's name and history? I don't see Ju Jutsu being taught to him by anyone else, or even Judo for that matter.

You have already been told by at least two people that it is very suspicious to not be able to tell you who taught him JJJ. I will be the third or fourth.

Did he offer to teach you JJJ? I'm sorry, but I refuse to read his 7 page bio to find where he mentions his training. You're gonna have to copy and paste quotes.

Also, anyone with a 7 page bio is probably tooting their own horn. Just my honest opinion.

-Look under the "What we offer" tab for Judo etc.

The only beef I had with their Judo has already been debunked. He even cites the source for his description of Judo (wikipedia).

So what is your beef with what you see? Find out which Judo organisation he claims his rank from and then check with them to see if he's legit.