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  1. TskTskTsk is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 11:46am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Fake Black Belt? Fort Wayne, IN

    Ft. Wayne Jiu-jitsu Academy has a guy by the name of Freddy Rodriguez who was a white belt under Professor Marcello Monteiro is now claiming a KOBK jiu jitsu black belt and is teaching Brazilian jiu jitsu. He claims to have gotten a Black belt from Dave Hart in 2007.

    Can anybody help me figure out if hes a legit black belt or not? I know he works with Alan Stockman a legit BB but he wears a white belt when Alans around.

    Thanks

    Since I am not allowed to post links yet you can search them on Facebook. they dont have a real website yet.
    Last edited by TskTskTsk; 9/07/2012 11:49am at . Reason: link addition
  2. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 12:49pm


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hello, welcome to bullshido. Please go to newbietown and start a thread introducing yourself to us.

    Unfortunately, this is as pleasant as this thread is going to get.

    You've jumped into the deep end, and the onus is on you to do the fact finding.

    So, a little bit of google fu has brought up these items:
    Coupon for his studio
    Owner and instructor, Fred Rodriguez, is a Black Belt in the art of KOBK Jiu Jitsu and has trained such notable fighters as Dan “the Beast” Severn, Triple Crown UFC Heavyweight Champion and a UFC Hall of Fame member. He was in Severn’s corner for his last fight in the UFC.
    A mighty fine claim of working with Dan Severn, that could be easily verified (by you). Also, *no* claim of BJJ black belt, only a K.O.B.K. black belt.

    Since I am not allowed to post links yet you can search them on Facebook. they dont have a real website yet.
    Really, because I was able to find one:
    About Ft. Wayne Jiu Jitsu

    Ft. Wayne Jiu Jitsu Academy was founded in 2012 by K.O.B.K. Jiu Jitsu Blackbelt Freddy Rodriguez & Pro Fighter and American Top Team Level 1 Certifited Instructor Doug Stapleton. Together, they have put together the best Jiu Jitsu program and school in Norteast Indiana.
    Again *no* claim of BJJ black belt, only a K.O.B.K. black belt.

    The only link that looks *anything* like him claiming a BJJ black belt is :

    Rodriguez's profile on BJJCoach.com

    Hardly a smoking gun, especially when you consider that *every* time he writes out what he does he specifically states his BB is from K.O.B.K.

    I know he works with Alan Stockman a legit BB but he wears a white belt when Alans around.
    Yeah, this sort of clinches it for me. A guy who cornered Dan Severn is humble enough to wear a white belt. That's a cool guy.

    As for the BB from Dave Hart? Did he say BB in BJJ? And by Dave Hart, do we mean Dave Hart from Oz?

    So questions for you:

    (1) Do you have any bias against this guy? Are you a competitor, have a competitive school, took lessons there?

    (2) What brought him up on your radar?

    (3) Have you spoken with him? Asked for his lineage?

    (4) Does he claim to teach BJJ or K.O.B.K. Jiu Jitsu?

    (5) What documentation do you have that he claims he got a BB in BJJ from Dave Hart?
    Last edited by JohnKenner; 9/07/2012 12:55pm at .
  3. Charles Brown is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 1:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: DT Instructor

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The site does say this:

    We hope you can find everything you need. Ft. Wayne Jiu Jitsu Academy is focused on providing high-quality Gracie Jiu Jitsu Training - we will do everything we can to meet your expectations in our gym and classes.
    With a variety of Class times to choose from, we're sure you'll find time to workout with us. Please look around our website and if you have any comments or questions, please feel free to contact us.

    The problem that I'm having is that I have no idea what KOBK Jiu Jitsu is. I've never heard of it.
  4. wetware is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 1:58pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    -2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Brown View Post
    The site does say this:

    [I]We hope you can find everything you need. Ft. Wayne Jiu Jitsu Academy is focused on providing high-quality Gracie Jiu Jitsu Training
    As far as I can tell that's code for, "We'll be more than happy to charge you for taking you through the Gracie Combatives DVD set."
  5. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 2:36pm


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wetware View Post
    As far as I can tell that's code for, "We'll be more than happy to charge you for taking you through the Gracie Combatives DVD set."
    No. The legit BB the OP was referring to is a BB under Wally Holem and earned Purple and Brown from Marcello C. Monteiro (both of whom are Carlson Gracie BBs).

    On the guy's site it shows association with Alan Stockman and Carlson Gracie. The question to me is: who teaches the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and what claims does Rodriguez make?

    All of which the OP needs to answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Brown View Post
    The site does say this:

    We hope you can find everything you need. Ft. Wayne Jiu Jitsu Academy is focused on providing high-quality Gracie Jiu Jitsu Training - we will do everything we can to meet your expectations in our gym and classes.
    With a variety of Class times to choose from, we're sure you'll find time to workout with us. Please look around our website and if you have any comments or questions, please feel free to contact us.

    The problem that I'm having is that I have no idea what KOBK Jiu Jitsu is. I've never heard of it.
    Not knowing what K.O.B.K. Jiu Jitsu is isn't damning, and the Gracie link is described the the OPs own post.
  6. TskTskTsk is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 2:45pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They claim to be Team Carlson Gracie which is BJJ. He does say KOBK jiu jitsu which is fake from what I have gathered. And KOBK jiu jitsu has nothing to do with teaching BJJ.

    I have spoken to his BJJ instructor and he sates that Freddy is teaching his fundamentals program and that is all he knows. He wont comment of his rank or verify his rank.

    So questions for you:

    (1) Do you have any bias against this guy? Are you a competitor, have a competitive school, took lessons there?

    I have no bias against him. I have actually in the past tried to help him train in a legit manner. Yes I do have an academy in Fort Wayne but I am all for the growth of BJJ and dont mind more people playing legit BJJ. I would welcome it with open arms. Especially since we would both have Carlson Gracie Lineage.

    (2) What brought him up on your radar?
    Radio ads claiming to teach bjj

    (3) Have you spoken with him? Asked for his lineage?

    I have spoken to him in the past on the phone and over facebook today about his lineage. He only claims to have worked with Alan Stockman for the last two years yet has no BJJ rank and stands by his KOBK Black belt that he got in 2007 from Dave Hart.

    (4) Does he claim to teach BJJ or K.O.B.K. Jiu Jitsu? He claims to be Team Carlson Gracie and teaches BJJ. They train in the gi.

    (5) What documentation do you have that he claims he got a BB in BJJ from Dave Hart?

    Copied straight from Facebook
    Ft. Wayne Jiu jitsu Academy: Noah ... I have a Black Belt from Dave Hart I am very proud of...that is my lineage .. I would not disrespect my instructor by taking that belt off and gaining ranking else where ...i stand behind my credentials



    He then later has retracted back to stating that he teaches jiu jitsu but teaches Alan Stockmans fundaments to their grappling class.


    As for which Dave Hart he tells me it is not the Dave Hart from Team Dominance whom recieved his bb in 2008. He will not clarify. Simply avoids.


    If I am in the wrong guys please let me know but this sounds like a major bait and switch. I was excited to work with this guy and now feel a bit mislead. What do you think?

  7. wetware is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 2:52pm


     Style: BJJ/MT

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKenner View Post
    No. The legit BB the OP was referring to is a BB under Wally Holem and earned Purple and Brown from Marcello C. Monteiro (both of whom are Carlson Gracie BBs).
    That's right. I sometimes forget that the Gracie Barra schools are trying to differentiate themselves from "generic" BJJ as well, since there's no Gracie Barra schools in this area. I now downvote myself.
  8. TskTskTsk is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 2:57pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Has my post helped clarify any?

    and they are not Gracie Barra

    they claim Team Carlson Gracie
    Last edited by TskTskTsk; 9/07/2012 3:02pm at . Reason: additional info
  9. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 3:44pm


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TskTskTsk View Post
    Has my post helped clarify any?

    and they are not Gracie Barra

    they claim Team Carlson Gracie
    Well no. Listen, if I'm being hard on you, please take this for what it is - if someone came on this board and questioned your credentials, wouldn't you want the same diligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by TskTskTsk View Post
    They claim to be Team Carlson Gracie which is BJJ.
    But is that all he teaches? I've yet to see him claim rank in any other system other than KOBK.

    He does say KOBK jiu jitsu which is fake from what I have gathered.
    What proof do you have of this? Here's two threads from MMAUnderground from '08 and '09 that mention K.O.B.K. and Dave Hart. Not proof either way, but still it goes a little towards the fact that it isn't completely fabricated.

    And KOBK jiu jitsu has nothing to do with teaching BJJ.
    I agree, I still want to see something where it lists him as a BJJ instructor.

    I have spoken to his BJJ instructor and he sates that Freddy is teaching his fundamentals program and that is all he knows. He wont comment of his rank or verify his rank.
    Ok, so a few questions, do you have this via email, where we can see the conversation? Also, did you expect him to validate a rank he didn't give? So, the bigger question is, does Stockman agree that this guy is experienced enough to teach fundamentals?

    I have no bias against him. I have actually in the past tried to help him train in a legit manner.
    Define past. I've seen that the school opened in 2012. Past as in past five months or a year ago?

    Yes I do have an academy in Fort Wayne but I am all for the growth of BJJ and dont mind more people playing legit BJJ. I would welcome it with open arms. Especially since we would both have Carlson Gracie Lineage.
    Okay, thanks for being honest. Although if you are ever in a position again, please post up front that there is a business competition here. I've been burned by this in the past with these types of posts, and you being up front with it speaks a lot.

    Radio ads claiming to teach bjj
    I have spoken to him in the past on the phone and over facebook today about his lineage. He only claims to have worked with Alan Stockman for the last two years yet has no BJJ rank and stands by his KOBK Black belt that he got in 2007 from Dave Hart.
    A two year white belt is not unheard of (looks in mirror and cries). Have you personally rolled with him? How often is Stockton in class? How is quality control?

    (4) Does he claim to teach BJJ or K.O.B.K. Jiu Jitsu? He claims to be Team Carlson Gracie and teaches BJJ. They train in the gi.
    They definitely do claim association to Stockman and then from Stockman to TCG.

    (5) What documentation do you have that he claims he got a BB in BJJ from Dave Hart?

    Copied straight from Facebook
    Ft. Wayne Jiu jitsu Academy: Noah ... I have a Black Belt from Dave Hart I am very proud of...that is my lineage .. I would not disrespect my instructor by taking that belt off and gaining ranking else where ...i stand behind my credentials



    He then later has retracted back to stating that he teaches jiu jitsu but teaches Alan Stockmans fundaments to their grappling class.
    Screen shot the facebook conversation.

    If I am in the wrong guys please let me know but this sounds like a major bait and switch. I was excited to work with this guy and now feel a bit mislead. What do you think?
    Again, this is not personal. This is about making sure that there is due diligence.

    So to me, there are more questions than answers at this point. What is this guy's curriculum - is it pure CGJJ? If so, he's only teaching this fundamentals course, is he allowed to rank? How is he working to improve his rank? Did he start teaching with Stockman's blessing? Does Stockman ever teach at his academy? If so how much?

    I do find it somewhat concerning that he reps CGJJ so big and bad on his front page... but I don't see him claiming a false rank (at least I see no proof that it is false).

    If he only claimed JJ on his front page, there really wouldn't be a discussion. Thus far, the only thing I've seen talking about BJJ is on the front page of their site.

    Also, if Stockman has given Rodriguez permission to teach the fundamentals course..? Does that make Rodriguez a fake? I mean, I have a problem with calling someone who (possibly) cornered Dan Severn as unqualified in grappling.

    Dan, please don't rip me in half.
    Last edited by JohnKenner; 9/07/2012 3:51pm at .
  10. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2012 4:30pm


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess to me the salient points are at this point:

    (1) Does this school only teach BJJ?

    (2) Does Rodriguez actually teach all of the classes or just fundamentals?

    (3) How does Stockman play into teaching/quality control?
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