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  1. lordbd is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 7:43pm


     Style: Boxing/Iron Palm

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Physiology of Aikido Techniques REVEALED

    So I'm doing what I do best (nerding around in my ivory tower avoiding my dissertation at all costs), and I come across some interesting information. A gentleman who wrote an aikido beginners manual that I found pretty useful when I was beginning my aikido training (I know, I know, start ragging on me now)



    ...also published a series of anatomy studies of cadaver bodies to see just how it is that some of the various joint locks in aikido cause pain and/ or damage. So this third degree black-belt in aikido (also a Judoka if I'm not mistaken) up and grappled the **** out of some dead bodies and had physio ppl observe and see what was at play. He publishes SEPARATE peer-reviewed papers each on ikkyo, nikyo, sankyo, yonkyo, and gokyo.

    Say what you want about aikidoka, but they take their **** serious.

    Also feel free to make jokes about "aliveness" and aikido at this point.

    His papers were published as a series in the 90s in the journal Perceptual and Motor Skills. This journal, it turns out, is fucking badass as all hell and publishes a lot of martial arts studies (granted usually with relatively small samples, but still). For example, check out the abstract for this one..

    Technical variation in a sample of high level judo players.

    Franchini E, Sterkowicz S, Meira CM, Gomes FR, Tani G.
    Source

    Martial Arts and Combat Sports Research Group, School of Physical Education and Sport, University of São Paulo, Av. Prof. Mello Moraes 65, Cidade Universitária, 05508-900 São Paul/SP, Brazil. efranchini@usp.br

    Abstract

    Technical actions performed by two groups of judokas who won medals at World Championships and Olympic Games during the period 1995-2001 were analyzed. In the Super Elite group (n = 17) were the best athletes in each weight category. The Elite group (n = 16) were medal winners who were not champions and did not win more than three medals. Super Elite judokas used a greater number of throwing techniques which resulted in scores, even when expressed relative to the total number of matches performed, and these techniques were applied in more directions than those of Elite judokas. Further, the number of different throwing techniques and the variability of directions in which techniques were applied were significantly correlated with number of wins and the number of points and ippon scored. Thus, a greater number of throwing techniques and use of directions for attack seem to be important in increasing unpredictability during judo matches.


    ......and I believe we recently had a debate about the effectiveness of palm strikes versus punches here on the forums as well?

    FORCE, REACTION TIME, AND PRECISION OF KUNG FU STRIKES
    1, 2


    OSMAR PINTO NETO
    Department of Health & KinesiologyTexas A&M University
    Universidade Camilo Castelo Branco andInstituto de Pesquisa e Qualidade Acadêmica São José dos Campos, Brazil

    RICHARD BOLANDER
    Department of Biomedical EngineeringWayne State University

    MARCOS TADEU TAVARES PACHECO
    Universidade Camilo Castelo Branco and Instituto de Pesquisa e Qualidade Acadêmica, São José dos Campos, Brazil

    CYNTHIA BIR
    Department of Biomedical EngineeringWayne State University

    Summary

    .—The goal was to compare values of force, precision, and reaction time of several martial arts punches and palm strikes performed by advanced and intermediate Kung Fu practitioners, both men and women. 13 Kung Fu practitioners, 10 men and three women, participated. Only the men, three advanced and seven intermediate, were considered for comparisons between levels. Reaction time values were obtained using two high speed cameras that recorded each strike at 2500 Hz. Force of impact was measured by a load cell. For comparisons of groups, force data were normalized by participant’s body mass and height. Precision of the strikes was determined by a high speed pressure sensor. The results show that palm strikes were stronger than punches. Women in the study presented, on average, lower values of reaction time and force but higher values of precision than men. Advanced participants presented higher forces than intermediate participants. Significant negative correlations between the values of force and precision and the values of force and reaction time were also found.

    ....anyway, that doesn't really answer that question, but it is cool that there is some basic science continuing to be conducted re: martial arts.
  2. Monkeyfists

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 9:34pm


     

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That **** is actually pretty interesting..listen up non-martial arts doers: we are better than you and Science says so!(in some ways)
  3. lordbd is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 9:36pm


     Style: Boxing/Iron Palm

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeyfists View Post
    That **** is actually pretty interesting..listen up non-martial arts doers: we are better than you and Science says so!(in some ways)
    There are a good number of review articles on the effects of martial arts on physical and mental health too. Pretty cool stuff.
  4. daishi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 9:53pm


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I feel bad that people posting legitimately interesting and productive material feel they need to preface aikido-related posts with some discriminatory comment. Ah well.

    Anyway, it is my understanding the techniques that eventually trickled their way into aikido were originally designed by a member of the Japanese royalty basically doing the same thing; dissecting cadavers to figure out how the body works in order to damage it more effectively. Pretty cool post linking peer-reviewed scholarly journals with these movements.
  5. Monkeyfists

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 9:57pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by daishi View Post
    I feel bad that people posting legitimately interesting and productive material feel they need to preface aikido-related posts with some discriminatory comment. Ah well.

    Anyway, it is my understanding the techniques that eventually trickled their way into aikido were originally designed by a member of the Japanese royalty basically doing the same thing; dissecting cadavers to figure out how the body works in order to damage it more effectively. Pretty cool post linking peer-reviewed scholarly journals with these movements.
    I actually wasn't trying to be an asshole or be discriminitary..I actually do find this fucking very goddamned interesting...
  6. lordbd is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2012 9:58pm


     Style: Boxing/Iron Palm

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would post some of the pictures and conclusions from the articles for each of the holds, but I'm not sure how the copyright crap works for these older articles. I have free access due to my association with a University.
  7. Petter is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 12:12am


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by daishi View Post
    Anyway, it is my understanding the techniques that eventually trickled their way into aikido were originally designed by a member of the Japanese royalty basically doing the same thing
    [citation needed]
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  8. daishi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 7:59am


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeyfists View Post
    I actually wasn't trying to be an asshole or be discriminitary..I actually do find this fucking very goddamned interesting...
    Just a general comment about aikido posting. Not directed at anyone in particular; neither you or the OP.. I just think it sucks that people seem to feel the need to preface a serious post about aikido with some sort of apologetic statement pertaining to aikido's lack of aliveness. If its a serious discussion, I would assume most people involved have realistic viewpoint on what aikido is and for. Anyway, not even a comment on posters who do that, just the state of things. Wasn't all too relevant to this thread so I didn't want to expand upon it too much.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 8:07am

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     Style: xingyi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by daishi View Post
    Just a general comment about aikido posting. Not directed at anyone in particular; neither you or the OP.. I just think it sucks that people seem to feel the need to preface a serious post about aikido with some sort of apologetic statement pertaining to aikido's lack of aliveness. If its a serious discussion, I would assume most people involved have realistic viewpoint on what aikido is and for. Anyway, not even a comment on posters who do that, just the state of things. Wasn't all too relevant to this thread so I didn't want to expand upon it too much.
    No, it doesn't suck. When the majority of your art is shitty, sorry it is, learn to deal with it and go on about your business.

    I disagree with your "most people involved." Even off the board non-sparring people, of various arts, tell me how deadly their **** is for SD. It is the arrogant, condescending, and pretentious nature of quite a few TMAs

    There have been a few serious discussions on this board, do you need them? Inevitably, a few of those "involved" Aikidokas **** on themselves and it turns into YMAS material.
  10. daishi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2012 8:08am


     Style: Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    [citation needed]
    I'm not sure exactly what kind of citation you are looking for. For immediate appeasement here is an excerpt from the Aikido Association of North America, the branch of Yoshinkan aikido started by Yukio Yutada. I don't belong to that group, but it was one of the first things that popped up on my search engine that I recognized as a reputable source. This corroborates the information that was presented to me by my organization. Meanwhile I will see if I can't locate some sort of peer-reviewed or scholarly journal as a source. There is more information linking samurai families to the development of aikido, through the Takeda family (Daito Ryu Aikijujitsu). Its an interesting history, but I will just quote the related subject matter and provide a link to the source for those interested.


    "It is difficult to speak with certainty about the very early history of Aikido. Tradition suggests that it is possible to trace back the origins of Aikido to Prince Teijun, the sixth son of the Japanese Emperor Seiwa (850-880 A.D.).

    However, the first important figure in the history of Aikido was a descendant of Prince Teijun, Minamoto no Yoshimitsu, who lived from 1037 to 1127. Yoshimitsu was the third son in a family already famous for its military accomplishments. His father was a general in the service of the Emperor. The most illustrious member of Yoshimitsu's family was his older brother Yoshiie, who commanded a number of notable victories chronicled in the "Tale of Mutsu." In a famous incident in 1082, during the Gosannen War, the two brothers joined forces to attack Kanazawa Castle. Yoshimitsu noticed a disturbance in the flight pattern of wild geese overhead and thus avoided riding into ambush.

    Though Yoshimitsu never achieved the renown of his older brother, he distinguished himself as a warrior. He excelled in spear, sword and unarmed techniques, as well as in archery. At this point in the development of Japanese military arts, mounted archery was considered more important than swordsmanship. It is notable that the two schools of mounted archery which survive into modern times (Takeda Ryu and Ogasawara Ryu), both trace their origin back to Minamoto no Yoshimitsu.

    It is said that Yoshimitsu dissected cadavers to increase his understanding of the workings of bone, muscle and connective tissues. From this research he added to his repertoire of unarmed techniques, then called "Tai Jutsu."

    Yoshimitsu's second son moved to the mountainous Kai region of Japan, and founded a new clan with the name Takeda. The Takedas ruled Kai during the breakdown of imperial power and the centuries of war which followed, becoming one of the few ruling families to survive the transition from the era of the shugo, the governor legitimated by the emperor, to the era of the daimyo, the independent feudal lord. During this unsettled period, the Takedas refined the techniques handed down from Yoshimitsu in the face of constant warfare. A manuscript dating from around 1580, written by one of the Takeda family retainers, illustrates techniques which are recognizable to today's Aikido practitioners."

    http://www.doshinkan-aikido.org/aikido/history/
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