Longer range riflery

**Wounded Ronin** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 9:27am

This thread was inspired by the other one about the .22 groups where people posted a bunch of good information about pistol marksmanship.

I feel very confident or comfortable with pistols, but now I am starting to train with rifles. At this time I'm training with an A2 style full length AR with iron sights, the one I've posted pictures of with the triangular handguards. I am less confident with rifles than I am with pistols. I feel like I need to improve my consistent performance with the rifle at ranges from 200 to 1000 yards.

When it comes to shooting plates out at 200 yards to 1000 yards using a rifle, are there any instructional videos that you would recommend?

It's a funny thing. When I'm looking down aligned pistol irons, I feel like I can hit anything. Like I've got at least a chance to hit anything. That's how I feel confident.

When I'm looking through the ring on the rifle, I just never feel confident. It seems so much more complicated, with all the adjustments you must do, and how instead of simply lining stuff up you have to look through a ring and try to figure out where dead center is so you can put your front post there. I always wonder if it's really really dead center or not.

**Kharon** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 10:41am

I'm not sure 1000 yards with your rifle is reasonable. I thing the efective range of a 5.56 is 450 to 550 yards I know there are guys than can hit plates out farther but you would realy have to have your ducks in a row. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 10:50am

No video on earth is going to help you with that range using that rifle.

**GoldenJonas** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 11:25am

Zero'ing a 5.56 (.223) at 100-300 is the usual distance from what guys at my range have told me. I am starting to look in to the NRA Long Range Comps and they require an AR chambered for the standard 5.56, iron sights (of course), and I am looking in to getting the 20" barrel rather than the tactical 16" most come with.

From what I have been told, Ykroon is correct. 1000yds with a 5.56 is just about as lucky as the current sniper record, which I beleive is like 2700yds with a .338 Lupa Magnum. I think the planets would have to be perfectly aligned and the suns gravitational pull would have to be perfect at the second you pulled the trigger to hit 1000yds with a 5.56.

It would truly be an awesome shot.

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 7:46pm

Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin

This thread was inspired by the other one about the .22 groups where people posted a bunch of good information about pistol marksmanship.

I feel very confident or comfortable with pistols, but now I am starting to train with rifles. At this time I'm training with an A2 style full length AR with iron sights, the one I've posted pictures of with the triangular handguards. I am less confident with rifles than I am with pistols. I feel like I need to improve my consistent performance with the rifle at ranges from 200 to 1000 yards.

When it comes to shooting plates out at 200 yards to 1000 yards using a rifle, are there any instructional videos that you would recommend?

It's a funny thing. When I'm looking down aligned pistol irons, I feel like I can hit anything. Like I've got at least a chance to hit anything. That's how I feel confident.

When I'm looking through the ring on the rifle, I just never feel confident. It seems so much more complicated, with all the adjustments you must do, and how instead of simply lining stuff up you have to look through a ring and try to figure out where dead center is so you can put your front post there. I always wonder if it's really really dead center or not.

enjoy these

**Wounded Ronin** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 8:05pm

Originally Posted by Jim_Jude

enjoy these

Wow! I guess that at a certain point you pretty much need optics.

**Wounded Ronin** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 8:06pm

Originally Posted by Yrkoon9

No video on earth is going to help you with that range using that rifle.

Not even the lower range, eg. 200-400 yards?

**GoldenJonas** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 8:55pm

Holy crap. 32' drop with a 7.62 at 1000yds? So you would be shooting at the moon with a 5.56. Awesome vid, thanks for that.

**Devil** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 10:25pm

Will a 5.56 travel 1,000 yards? Um, yeah. But it'll have the kind of trajectory usually experienced by English longbowmen. Cut your distance expectation in half and you'll be in much more realistic territory. Even then, you'll need to know how to shoot and you'll need to know how to shoot that particular rifle to get good consistent groups at 500 yards.

The good news is your A2 style AR is much more capable of long range accuracy than an M4 with a shorter barrel. The A2 was my issued weapon when I was in the military. I could shoot a 10 shot group of about 8-10" at 500 yards with iron sights on a day with low wind, and I felt pretty good about that. As a frame of reference, I had the second highest score on the rifle range in boot camp with a platoon of 72 people and I was a multiple award Expert by the time my enlistment ended. I was almost always the best shooter in every platoon I was in. Not bragging. My point is I'm fairly confident that's pretty close to the best accuracy you can wring out of a standard unmodified A2 with irons, at least if you're not a professional shooter.

I would start by shooting at 100 yards. Focus on getting small groups at that distance. Learn the fundamentals first. Trigger control, breathing, natural point of aim, proper shooting positions for offhand, kneeling, sitting and prone.

Once you understand the basics, you can start learning the necessary skills to increase your range. You'll need to understand the ballistics of the round you're shooting first and foremost. Then you can learn the adjustments you need to make at various ranges and tweak your particular rifle's dope at known distances out to 500 yards. Learn how to judge the wind and make proper adjustments.

THEN you can start the fun stuff, which is taking everything you've practiced and shooting at unknown distances.

There's no point in thinking about thousand yard shooting until you've got a grip on these things. If you do those things and still want to shoot way out there, go get a good scoped rifle of a different caliber (I won't even get into which caliber because that's a whole new conversation) and have at it.

**IMightBeWrong** · Posted On: 3/16/2012 11:29pm

Is your rifle chambered for .223 or 5.56x45mm? If it's the latter, you could look into Mark 262 ammo loadings for when you feel like trying to reach out a little farther than your average load. Should extend your effective range to about 500-600 yards.

If you want to slap steel at 1,000 yards you'll want to pick up a .30 caliber rifle and some decent optics at some point. Is it possible to hit a target with iron sights at that range? Yes.

It's not easy, though.