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  1. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 12:11am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Ten Ways the Occupy Movement Changes Everything

    The stuff below the link is all paste. I like the article because point one is true - and because the 1% will soon own 1/2 the wealth of America (top 10% have > 90% of $). Because bankers dealing weird debt crap fucked us good. Because there is massive government subsidies for Wall Street gambling - it was a natural process aided by the government: the change from selling goods, real estate, and securities to selling credit derivatives. Does "It is proposed to include in the measurement system those debt derivatives and off-balance-sheet instruments, forward rate agreements (FRAs), futures and options on debt instruments, interest rate and cross-currency swaps," make sense???

    What does make sense is that in 1989 the derivatives market was $2.4 trillion. In 2009 it had grown to $460 trillion of complex derivatives contracts.

    What does make sense is that ex-chief of staff Emanuel was a Goldman Sachs lobbyist, current chief William Daley was an exec with JPMorgan Chase (and top Fannie Mae asshole in the 90s) to say nothing of Rubin, Summers and so forth. The point being, it's hen-house foxes and **** obama, it's business as usual.

    And more than 30 million are unemployed, 37 million on food stamps and they and the rest of the 99% are being portrayed as the ones causing trouble, ones being blamed for the financial crisis that was primarily caused the usual suspects.


    http://www.yesmagazine.org/people-po...ges-everything


    Before the Occupy Wall Street movement, there was little discussion of the outsized power of Wall Street and the diminishing fortunes of the middle class.

    The media blackout was especially remarkable given that issues like jobs and corporate influence on elections topped the list of concerns for most Americans.

    Occupy Wall Street changed that. In fact, it may represent the best hope in years that “we the people” will step up to take on the critical challenges of our time. Here’s how the Occupy movement is already changing everything:

    by Sarah van Gelder, David Korten, Steve Piersanti

    Many question whether this movement can really make a difference. The truth is that it is already changing everything. Here’s how.

    1. It names the source of the crisis.
    Political insiders have avoided this simple reality: The problems of the 99% are caused in large part by Wall Street greed, perverse financial incentives, and a corporate takeover of the political system. Now that this is understood, the genie is out of the bottle and it can’t be put back in.

    2. It provides a clear vision of the world we want.
    We can create a world that works for everyone, not just the wealthiest 1%. And we, the 99%, are using the spaces opened up by the Occupy movement to conduct a dialogue about the world we want.

    3. It sets a new standard for public debate.
    Those advocating policies and proposals must now demonstrate that their ideas will benefit the 99%. Serving only the 1% will not suffice, nor will claims that the subsidies and policies that benefit the 1% will eventually “trickle down.”

    4. It presents a new narrative.
    The solution is not to starve government or impose harsh austerity measures that further harm middle-class and poor people already reeling from a bad economy. Instead, the solution is to free society and government from corporate dominance. A functioning democracy is our best shot at addressing critical social, environmental, and economic crises.

    5. It creates a big tent.
    We, the 99%, are people of all ages, races, occupations, and political beliefs. We will resist being divided or marginalized. We are learning to work together with respect.

    6. It offers everyone a chance to create change.
    No one is in charge; no organization or political party calls the shots. Anyone can get involved, offer proposals, support the occupations, and build the movement. Because leadership is everywhere and new supporters keep turning up, there is a flowering of creativity and a resilience that makes the movement nearly impossible to shut down.

    7. It is a movement, not a list of demands.
    The call for deep change—not temporary fixes and single-issue reforms—is the movement’s sustaining power. The movement is sometimes criticized for failing to issue a list of demands, but doing so could keep it tied to status quo power relationships and policy options. The occupiers and their supporters will not be boxed in.

    8. It combines the local and the global.
    People in cities and towns around the world are setting their own local agendas, tactics, and aims. What they share in common is a critique of corporate power and an identification with the 99%, creating an extraordinary wave of global solidarity.

    9. It offers an ethic and practice of deep democracy and community.
    Slow, patient decision-making in which every voice is heard translates into wisdom, common commitment, and power. Occupy sites are set up as communities in which anyone can discuss grievances, hopes, and dreams, and where all can experiment with living in a space built around mutual support.

    10. We have reclaimed our power.
    Instead of looking to politicians and leaders to bring about change, we can see now that the power rests with us. Instead of being victims to the forces upending our lives, we are claiming our sovereign right to remake the world.
    Last edited by patfromlogan; 11/16/2011 12:17am at .
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  2. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 12:22am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know what? If social change occurs, I am sure I will be in a better position to benefit from it than a whole heap of no hopers who are trying to enact change because it's easier than working. I am pretty sure that if by some miracle the rich suddenly began distributing the wealth they have been hoarding, it will be among productive members of society, not among fucking stinking hippies.

    I agree there needs to be a massive societal change in regards to wealth distribution. I agree that there are people in the movement who actually understand the concept of this massive societal change. I also think that there are too many fucking morons out there and I wish that social Darwinism had a more pointed spear.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
  3. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 12:41am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You want Social Darwinism back? Do you want the version with eugenics, the one with concentration camps, or the one with robber barons and child laborers?


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  4. HereBeADragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 1:13am


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I want the child labor one! These kids are too fucking lazy these days!
  5. dflanmod is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 2:47am


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    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Top 10 reasons the occupy movement don't mean ****.


    10. The movement is has a large emotional basis but little to no functionality in converting that emotional energy into political activism and results.

    9. The movement has too many greedy people in it who wish for free **** and want somebody else to pay for it. And because of this they will lose the support of people who would otherwise be on board with the reform of politics, banking and corporations.

    8. The movement refuses to narrow it's focus to a specific set of actionable issues and aligns itself with any nut job that has a cause. Once again alienating itself from people who would actually give a **** about real issues.

    7. The movement has too large a cross section of lazy people, so much so that they will never put in the effort to make any sort of lasting impact.

    6. The fully democratic process wherin all voices must be heard and the decentralized process of no leadership virtually assures that they will never form into a cohesive group capable directing their lazy collective toward their complete lack of a common goal.

    5. The complete acceptance of any view point that is critical of the "establishment", "corporations" and "wealthy people" with no voice of reason, restraint or minimal standards of logic once again alienates them and allows people in power to marginalize them as whack jobs.

    4. They have no money as a group. Money is required to bring about political change. You have to fight fire with fire.

    3. The American people are ultimately not willing to make the sacrifices that their goals would bring about. IE, end corporate wellfare for "big oil" and watch gas prices rise as the expenses related get passed on to the consumer.

    2. Polititians lack the stones to make the hard decisions. And this group of people though they have a voice marginalizes themselves enough to make them a non entity to the sackless corrupt polititians.

    1. Corporations make money, employ people, pay a **** ton of taxes, contribute to polititians and drive the ecconomy of the US and as such will always have a bigger voice than fringe ellements.



    So in closing.
    Yes we need to fix politics.
    Yes we need to change laws regarding finance.
    Yes there are some corporations that need to be reigned in.

    But no, this rabble will not do that. If they want all the middle class behind them the need to cut the fringe ellement out and give the rest of us middle class people a cause we can get behind without looking like a bunch of retards.
  6. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 3:08am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sounds like you need to go show them how it's done! Go teach those kids who've been camping in the park for two months in the cold how to run their food, medical and decision making infrastructure in a non-lazy way.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  7. FinalLegion is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 3:18am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Top 10 Reasons That dflanmod's Reasons Don't Mean ****

    10. Every movement has a beginning and goes through a time of growth. Change and organization do not happen overnight, so it's useless to criticize what they haven't done.

    9. You'll always find people like that in any movement that seeks change on a huge scale...the Occupy movement isn't alone in that regard. Eventually, those involved will learn to police their own out of sheer necessity but, as with any movement, you can't watch everyone every minute of the day.

    8. The Occupy Movement does not identify with any 'nutjob that has a cause'. That is a blatant spin by the media. They focus on vocal, rabble rousing space cadets who have wandered into the movement. It's intellectually dishonest to try and paint a minority as the majority.

    7. This might as well be the same as #9. The remedy remains the same.

    6. A centralized voice and democratic process is part of the growth process. Every major movement started out the same way...why does this one have to be different? In addition, this is almost identical to #10. Splitting wordplay to fill out a list isn't too honest.

    5. This is the only place where I'll find agreement with you. Occupiers and those who stand with them need to learn that 'corporate' is not a synonym for evil.

    4. Another part of the growth and organizational process. Other movements have had the same problem at first, but found that as they became more coherent and unified, funds began to come in from members. For the third time...this is a movement that is in it's infancy. Let's let it grow up before we cast stones.

    3. That's because the American people think that ending corporate welfare gives corporations carte blanche to raise their prices to unreasonable levels. The truth is what most Americans may have a faint understanding of but don't realize it: corporations are holding a knife to the throat of government and threatening to put a stranglehold on consumer goods unless they get the 'welfare' that they want. When a united population supports a government that won't put up with that ****, things will change.

    2. YOU need to learn that politician =/= corrupt, spineless worm. What the Occupy movement needs to do is investigate and discover politicians within their own ranks they can promote and seek out the ones that, at least, agree with them in principle and seek the same changes.

    1. You know, the British thought the same thing about the Colonies. They also thought the same thing about a little bald man in glasses and loin cloth. Many Americans thought the same thing about some people calling for civil rights for 'minorities'. It's funny how these 'fringe elements' just refuse to stay on the fringe. When the voice of unity is loud enough, even a deaf man cannot help but hear it.

    Agreed, we need political overhaul.
    Agreed, we need serious restructuring of financial law.
    Agreed, but even moreso...there are a lot of corporations that need to be 'reigned in'.

    This 'rabble' has begun something that's continuing to grow. There is simply no way to pass blanket judgement over a movement so young. What the middle class needs to do is investigate for themselves what the Occupy movement is all about. All that most of the middle class is doing now is buying into the media spin that Occupiers are just a bunch of dirty filthy criminals and hippies that want the government to give them a free ride while in the meantime they take your ****, rape your daughters and dispense drugs to everyone. That perception is the bullshit that has to end.
  8. dflanmod is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 3:20am


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    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can't too busy working my ass off trying to be solidy lower middle class.
  9. dflanmod is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 3:35am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FinalLegion View Post
    Top 10 Reasons That dflanmod's Reasons Don't Mean ****

    10. Every movement has a beginning and goes through a time of growth. Change and organization do not happen overnight, so it's useless to criticize what they haven't done.

    9. You'll always find people like that in any movement that seeks change on a huge scale...the Occupy movement isn't alone in that regard. Eventually, those involved will learn to police their own out of sheer necessity but, as with any movement, you can't watch everyone every minute of the day.

    8. The Occupy Movement does not identify with any 'nutjob that has a cause'. That is a blatant spin by the media. They focus on vocal, rabble rousing space cadets who have wandered into the movement. It's intellectually dishonest to try and paint a minority as the majority.

    7. This might as well be the same as #9. The remedy remains the same.

    6. A centralized voice and democratic process is part of the growth process. Every major movement started out the same way...why does this one have to be different? In addition, this is almost identical to #10. Splitting wordplay to fill out a list isn't too honest.

    5. This is the only place where I'll find agreement with you. Occupiers and those who stand with them need to learn that 'corporate' is not a synonym for evil.

    4. Another part of the growth and organizational process. Other movements have had the same problem at first, but found that as they became more coherent and unified, funds began to come in from members. For the third time...this is a movement that is in it's infancy. Let's let it grow up before we cast stones.

    3. That's because the American people think that ending corporate welfare gives corporations carte blanche to raise their prices to unreasonable levels. The truth is what most Americans may have a faint understanding of but don't realize it: corporations are holding a knife to the throat of government and threatening to put a stranglehold on consumer goods unless they get the 'welfare' that they want. When a united population supports a government that won't put up with that ****, things will change.

    2. YOU need to learn that politician =/= corrupt, spineless worm. What the Occupy movement needs to do is investigate and discover politicians within their own ranks they can promote and seek out the ones that, at least, agree with them in principle and seek the same changes.

    1. You know, the British thought the same thing about the Colonies. They also thought the same thing about a little bald man in glasses and loin cloth. Many Americans thought the same thing about some people calling for civil rights for 'minorities'. It's funny how these 'fringe elements' just refuse to stay on the fringe. When the voice of unity is loud enough, even a deaf man cannot help but hear it.

    Agreed, we need political overhaul.
    Agreed, we need serious restructuring of financial law.
    Agreed, but even moreso...there are a lot of corporations that need to be 'reigned in'.

    This 'rabble' has begun something that's continuing to grow. There is simply no way to pass blanket judgement over a movement so young. What the middle class needs to do is investigate for themselves what the Occupy movement is all about. All that most of the middle class is doing now is buying into the media spin that Occupiers are just a bunch of dirty filthy criminals and hippies that want the government to give them a free ride while in the meantime they take your ****, rape your daughters and dispense drugs to everyone. That perception is the bullshit that has to end.
    I actually like your list.

    I Won't address your list on a point by point basis but as a whole.

    The occupy movement has the base and the public exposure to do something. However they will have to become a political orginization that has a narrower more mainstream approach in order to do that. What they need is a leader and a proper infastructure to promote their cause. But can they get a leader? So far it seems that having leadership has been somewhat anthema to their cause.

    I could be wrong and only time will tell.

    Ps. My negative view of occupy come not from the media. I don't watch tv. My negative view comes from driving by the protesters.

    Pps. ****. You're right about 7 and 9 being the same. You know how hard it is to come up with a top 10 list on the fly using a slide phone?
  10. P Marsh is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2011 3:48am


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dflanmod View Post
    I actually like your list.

    I Won't address your list on a point by point basis but as a whole.

    The occupy movement has the base and the public exposure to do something. However they will have to become a political orginization that has a narrower more mainstream approach in order to do that. What they need is a leader and a proper infastructure to promote their cause. But can they get a leader? So far it seems that having leadership has been somewhat anthema to their cause.

    I could be wrong and only time will tell.

    Ps. My negative view of occupy come not from the media. I don't watch tv. My negative view comes from driving by the protesters.

    Pps. ****. You're right about 7 and 9 being the same. You know how hard it is to come up with a top 10 list on the fly using a slide phone?
    I really would like to know why they thought that a leaderless movement wouldn't dissolve into an anarchic state like it did. I mean, after the first month and absolutely no headway being made in serious political or economic discussion let alone proposals or action should have set off some alarms. I hate to use hippy metaphors as I agree with what they generally wanted to accomplish but it all just devolved into one big, loud and pointless sit-in.

    I mean, what was so hard/wrong about having a key figure or face of the movement to communicate something clear to the public? How could they not have seen this coming?
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