Thread: martial arts and firearms
10/29/2011 3:50pm, #1
martial arts and firearms
My close friend teaches a kenpo/arnis hybrid, he's also a budding videographer/photographer/media dude. Recently he asked me to assist him in putting together a video clip about the footwork of his system and how it can be applied elsewhere. This is a piece showing some simple footwork as it can apply to firearms:
Nothing too fancy or complicated but thats what he wanted to show. I thought Id put it up here because this sort of topic always generates some interesting points that can help put together stuff that is not crap.
10/30/2011 8:27am, #2
The footwork used and body motion is very nice. Me likey.
A question.. as a police officer are your weapons made ready to fire whilst carried in the holster ?
I can see the movements being entirely applicable if the weapon is "ready" however, if the weapon is merely "loaded" and needs to be made ready, what additional actions/footwork/body movements would you include ?
In situations where I carry an SLP, (outside of being deployed) I'm not permitted to carry with the weapon made ready, thus, when presented, I have to incorporate an appropriate action to enable me to pull the slide back whilst maintaining an amount distancing which prevents (in theory) the possibility of the weapon - and my aim, being interfered with.
The side steps in your video are referred too by us as "life savers" and are incorporated in our drill as standard."To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
10/30/2011 8:36am, #3
As an aside thought mate..
What do you think about making a number of these videos as reference points for us to use here when challenging the BS seen by people like, as an example Luke Holloway ?
We could include them in the Wiki allowing easy reference."To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
10/30/2011 9:59am, #4
Thanks for the kind words. ;)
In answer to your question, most LEO's in the US carry firearms in "condition 1" (or zero..see below). For those not in the know the auto-pistol conditions are:
Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 - known as "cocked and locked”, means a round is in the chamber, the hammer cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer down and no magazine is in the gun.
Thing is...those conditions are/were designed with a 1911 style pistol in mind. The Glock with no external safety (but with its "safe action" safety measures) technically cant have the thumb safety applied so it's condition when loaded and chambered is a matter of debate amongst handgun afficinados.
10/30/2011 10:12am, #5
Actually. Due to my blogging habit I have a number of videos. Because Im not a horn blower (im just a cop and no tactical "expert") and make them more for my own entertainment and for self-evaluation instead of trying to sell my "tactical expertise" most of them have been used simply as a private exchange between the few mil/le types that read the blog.
Heres a write-up I did on reloads:
Theres the basics, then theres the basics of the basics and then there are the different variations on how you do the basics. I just got out of my garage after filming a few variations of the emergency reload. One would think, "how many ways are there to do a friggin emergency reload?" Well let me tell you.
This is how I was taught how to do it by my department back when I was a rookie. Physically strip the empty. Reload, then overhand sling-shot the slide. The reason for the selection of this technique was based on a known issue with Glock magazines. Some versions of the magazine were known to not drop free consistently. Rather than juggle a mag in the off-hand and then try to strip the hung-up magazine it was decided to strip the empty out before grabbing a fresh magazine. The slingshot technique was chosen because it is a gross motor movement, which was argued to be a better choice for a positive release under stress and possibly sweaty or blood soaked hands vs. trying to hit the small slide release.
With the advent of the newer Glock magazine...the ones with the metal tabs that contact the magazine release...
The drop-free issue is no longer much of a problem. So if you remove the "strip the old magazine" step you get this...
On the slide release issue; I decided to try a "strip..reload...slide release" and a "drop free..reload...slide release" to compare for speed:
Undoubtedly there is a speed advantage to the "drop free" and "slide release" technique, but I suppose that for the training of the average cop they are more skilled techniques with the potential for bobbling, dropping mags or missing slide levers. The question I am asking myself is what technique would be best for me to practice in general? I am still thinking about it.
Since that post I have been predominantly a "drop and slide release" re-loader.
Last edited by tgace; 10/30/2011 10:20am at .
10/30/2011 6:23pm, #6
Thats for the info mate.. appreciated."To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
10/31/2011 11:15am, #7
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Looks pretty good to me.
11/01/2011 4:05pm, #8
Since I only ever expect to manipulate my own M1911A1 clone, I let my magazines drop free and push the slide stop lever to reload. I do this not because I'm fixated on tactical badassedry and speed, but rather because my spasticity makes not moving my left hand (except to insert the new magazine, from a Modified Weaver grip) and closing my right hand virtually automatic functions. Bringing my right thumb up next to the slide, closing my grip so my thumb is against the slide, and pushing my thumb down against the slide stop lever is as natural as putting my foot down after taking a step.
My situation is far from normal, of course, but it's good to keep in mind that your muscles will “want” to do under stress what they “want” to do any time you're thinking of other things. Heh, I'm suddenly realizing that no one may be able to relate to this.
If you expect to use a variety of weapon systems, go with the lowest common denominator (i.e. pull magazines out and slingshot the slide).
11/02/2011 2:03am, #9
I don't teach dropping magazines out of the weapon as part of a normalised drill however, I know there's a time and a place when this may well happen but, "Tactical reload" in my book has far more to do with knowing when to change magazines as it has with the physical mechanics of the action its self.
Everything is relative to situation and, if one has spent the entire magazine and the slide is held open - and a threat still exists, it stands to reason one has to get a fresh mag in quickly however, In my considered opinion, if one has reached the stage where you've [generally speaking] expended your ability to fire the weapon, one has missed the more important tactical considerations of your situation."To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
11/02/2011 8:18am, #10
Not disagreeing with ya Ape, but to keep the thread going.....
The terminology we use over here for reloads are "emergency" and "tactical". I don't know if there is a different set of terms "over there".
Emergency reload is when you have run dry and cant transition to another weapon. You drop the empty and get a fresh one in ASAP.
A tactical reload is done "during a lull (or expected end) in the confrontation" and you swap out the partially loaded mag for a fresh one. Normally retaining the partial magazine. Tactical reloads can be a matter of debate in gun circles. Some people subscribe to tac reloads whenever possible while others state that the tactical reload should be saved only for the point at which you would reholster. I tend to go with the latter but still practice for the former.
I think that things change in military vs civilian application. Most Mil types are going to train holding onto magazines most of the time in case you are going to be on extended operations and may need to reload them.
I also think that with a rifle (in a Mil application), if you are actually receiving fire or if the fight is close, you are going to drop the magazine and then pick it up later if possible. If you are delivering rifle fire at range as part of a team/squad etc I would expect the use of pockets, dump pouches, or other magazine retention techniques.
With a pistol you are 99% of the time going to be in a close range fight or you have transitioned to it because your long gun went down and one again are close enough to an opponent that you need to transition vs reloading/clearing malfunction.
I wrote a bit about the tac reload that had a good clip of Clint Smith:
A comment I wrote there was:
I see it as a valuable military skill for various situations such as MOUT. If I had just cleared a building and fired a few rounds, while I was stacking up for a rush on another structure Id be TR my weapon for the next entry because you know that you are going to be firing again and you dont want to be speed loading on a room entry.
My .02. Others MMV.
Last edited by tgace; 11/02/2011 8:24am at .