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  1. antonyneal is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2011 4:59pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Riptoes starting strength for martial arts

    I noticed a thread raving about how good the Riptoe starting strength program is for beginners. I want to give it a try because I want to get properly into training this summer when I will have a lot of time. I am planning on doing four hours of Judo training each week one too two hours of Muay Thai and the starting strength program.

    Is this a good idea? Every where I read it says you should not add exercises too the starting strength program as you will over train ect. Does non weight training count?

    If that is over training what is people's opinion on doing just work outs A and B once a week each?

    For any one that wants to see what the starting strength program is look at the link bellow.

    http://www.startingstrength.net/workouts/
  2. PerseusStoned is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2011 7:33pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: NinBuKai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have no personal experience with this, so please take it with a grain of salt. What I'm saying is a watered down version of the 5x5 Stronglift PDF report which is very similar to Riptoe and found here.

    Some can do the training + strength gains fine, others find it stalls their strength. What you should probably expect is for your strength gains to stall a bit as your CNS will be occupied with MA. Assuming you don't have much of a physical exercise base, try to do the workouts on the same day to allow a full day recovery period for your body.

    If you have to choose, I'd recommend focusing on your MA first as strength gains won't be put of too much but technique will.
  3. IneedSkins is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2011 8:54pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do starting strength and judo. I go to judo monday and wednesday and ss tuesday and thursday, sunday if possible. i just keep my calories high and rest, your body will adapt.
  4. fin0867 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2011 4:55pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: kick boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IneedSkins View Post
    I do starting strength and judo. I go to judo monday and wednesday and ss tuesday and thursday, sunday if possible. i just keep my calories high and rest, your body will adapt.
    :Thoughtful:
    Alright. I'm planning on starting kick boxing again AND doing Ss at the same time. Problem is, I'm also aiming at fat loss and getting back in shape. Now, I know that fat loss is achieved with a calorie deficit diet. Problem is, Ss requires a high calorie intake. Could someone enlighten me on this particular question of mine? Can I do Ss and a martial art AND aim at fat loss WITHOUT overtraining myself? Kickboxing classes are Mon - We - Fri and Ss will be Tue - Thu - Sun. Thanks in advance fellers.
  5. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 2:14am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You'll stall faster, but you'll still make linear progress for a while. When you stall multiple times, just switch to a more moderate intensity program that is meant to work on a longer span, like the two day a week variations of 5/3/1 or Juggernaut.
  6. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 6:12am

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     Style: Boxing.MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've had a lot of stalling issues because of MA training fatiguing the hell out of me. Currently I've dropped weight training down to 2x weekly; this way I don't overtrain as much, and see more progression than when I was forcing three times a week.

    That being said, this is with boxing and MMA training at least four days a week. Grappling impacts on your ability to lift weights more than striking imo.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  7. fin0867 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 10:28am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: kick boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So I guess the answer is: go for it and see how it turns out. Alright then thanks guys
    :happy:
  8. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 10:28am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fin0867 View Post
    :Thoughtful:
    Alright. I'm planning on starting kick boxing again AND doing Ss at the same time. Problem is, I'm also aiming at fat loss and getting back in shape. Now, I know that fat loss is achieved with a calorie deficit diet. Problem is, Ss requires a high calorie intake. Could someone enlighten me on this particular question of mine? Can I do Ss and a martial art AND aim at fat loss WITHOUT overtraining myself? Kickboxing classes are Mon - We - Fri and Ss will be Tue - Thu - Sun. Thanks in advance fellers.
    If you're doing Starting Strength, then any other working out makes it not-doing-starting-strength. I disagree with IneedSkins: while it's possible to do both at the same time for a while, you will absolutely, positively, by-the-rules-of-the-universe stall out faster than if you just did SS. Doing other stuff takes away your ability to recover from the lifting. That's fine if you don't want to take time away from judo, but you have to recognize the facts of the matter. Read Rippetoe's clarifying article. He addresses extra workouts, losing weight on the program. Essentially it was written for you in the situation you're in now.

    I did a modified Starting Strength while training judo 2x/week. It went OK. I ran into recovery problems as well as form issues. I did a lot better after getting a few form checks from Rip's forum, Jack Rusher, and a local CrossFit gym. When I stalled out, I switched to a custom program.

    Perseus says that strength won't help martial arts. I have found the opposite. Getting stronger made my judo better. My overall fighting ability went up because I was stronger, but my technique got better too, because proper technique requires a degree of strength. If you can't squat your body weight, how can you expect to seoinage someone your size?

    Given your goals, I'd make sure you get enough sleep, eat enough good food (meat, eggs, milk, vegetables, greens), and focus your energy on one or two workout endeavors at a time. You say you're "planning" on judo, kickboxing and lifting. What are you doing now?
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  9. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 11:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    Perseus says that strength won't help martial arts. I have found the opposite. Getting stronger made my judo better. My overall fighting ability went up because I was stronger, but my technique got better too, because proper technique requires a degree of strength. If you can't squat your body weight, how can you expect to seoinage someone your size?
    I agree with the rest of your post, but he didn't actually say that.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
    Spoiler:

  10. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2011 8:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMAMickey View Post
    I agree with the rest of your post, but he didn't actually say that.
    You're right. I inadvertently straw-manned him. Perseus, I'm sorry.

    However, I still disagree with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by PerseusStoned View Post
    If you have to choose, I'd recommend focusing on your MA first as strength gains won't be put of too much but technique will.
    My more refined argument: Strength gains, particularly the massive and rapid strength gains achievable by novices, are arguably the easiest way to improve one's fighting ability if one is weak. Going from "weak like most people" to "can squat as much as they weight" doesn't take very much time if you're even moderately dedicated. Assuming a zero-sum trade-off between developing technique or strength, the benefit of technique that will be refined during that time is less or (perhaps) equal.

    I'd agree that antonyneal and fin0867 should start training whichever martial art they're looking at, but I'd devote at least one day a week, and preferably two, to lifting heavy.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
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