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  1. Outis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2011 11:35pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Judo Posture Problem

    I still get admonished to keep my back straight when I get down low turning in on someone who is much shorter than I am. I've come to the conclusion that a physiological peculiarity is to blame for this. When I was younger, I had to give up barbell squats and do seated leg presses instead because I couldn't help but lean forward to keep my balance with the barbell, and I suffered a serious back injury as a result.

    The problem seems to be lack of forward flexibility in the ankles. If there was more flexibility there, I'd be able to get my knees more out over my toes when squatting down, thus shifting my center of gravity forward a little more and allowing me to keep my back straight and maintain my balance during the squat. As it is now, when I try to squat down keeping my back straight, I feel as if I'm going to tip over backwards--and that would certainly make me more vulnerable to counters.

    So are there any general uke-loading tips for judoka who can't help but hunch forward like some kind of simian when they squat down?
  2. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2011 3:35am

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    1. Stop doing throws where you have to get down low on people significantly shorter than you. Bam problem solved.

    2. Pull uke off balance more, the higher uke's COG the lower you have to go to get underneath it.

    3. Pivot forwards rather than pivoting backwards into uke. See here for a demo:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KlLPsU8-ds#t=3m

    You'll probably need to do this on the move as its awkward doing it statically. See here for an explanation of how to do it on the move.
  3. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2011 4:55am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look, I'm no expert on theses things, but from my experience doing judo/MA, being coached in weight lifting, and having to work a fair bit with a phisio to fix posture problems over the years I have this to say: You've developed a bad habit, you're going to have to unlearn it and that's going to take a good bit of directed practice.

    Now, ankle mobility may be affecting you, but even if you fix this, it's not going to magically make everything else work. You're still going to have to work on keeping your form when performing throws, or lifting weights. Be very strict about this when you practice.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2011 5:11am

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     Style: Judo

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    Yeh, I've never actually met anyone whose problems with throwing people were actually due to their flexibility.

    If you take the people who say they can't get low enough to do a throw, because of [insert flexibility/age/injury excuse here] and take uke away and then get them to get into the correct position, they can always manage it. Taking uke away seems to magically solve all their flexibility/ getting low enough issues. So the issue obviously isn't with their physical ability to get low enough its with flaws in their technique that emerge when taking on a load.

    Pound to a penny the issue is that you're either not observing the triangle properly and or are struggling performing tsurikomi whilst back pivoting.

    As Ben and I keep saying back pivoting in on a static uke to do a forward technique is actually quite difficult and teaching beginners, especially late adult beginners this way is one the reasons they often struggle so much and feel compelled to cheat on the fundamentals by taking round the back grips and doing lots of high margin for error throws.

    So don't feel its because you suck, although that's part of it, just that relative to every other beginner your age you're on the same level of suck.

    Oh yeh and by this
    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    2. Pull uke off balance more, the higher uke's COG the lower you have to go to get underneath it.
    I meant the 'higher uke's COG the less low' you have to go to get underneath it.
  5. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2011 5:59am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What I'm trying to get at is that you still have to work on the problem directly. You might benefit from assistance exercises, you might need to work in the way you set the technique up, but at the end of the day you still have to stop doing the thing wrong and start trying to do it right. I think it really is as simple as that.
  6. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2011 2:12pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have poor ankle flexibility due to a plate in my leg. I've success with split legged/lunging versions hip throws and seoi nage. It becomes a knee, not ankle, flexibility issue then. One way to do this is by taking a third, lunging step between uke's legs.

    Biomechanically, there are a few ways of getting your COG lower. Bending the knees like a squat is one way, but you can also splay the leg wide (e.g. tai otoshi) or do a form of lunge (e.g. "Koga" seoi nage; "georgian" hip throws), or even drop to one or two knees.
  7. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2011 4:23pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Watch how Travis Stevens does seoi nage. It's not pretty, but it's effective.



    Or sambosteve's hip motion on this throw:

  8. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/27/2011 10:11pm

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     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have similar problems with both the barbell squat and seoinage. I agree with CrackFox: work on other throws for now, fix the underlying mobility and strength issues, then re-address seoinage or whatever once your body is physically capable of doing them correctly. I'm only a few months into fixing my mobility/flexibility/strength issues, and it's incredibly educational and productive.

    Is it possible for you to revisit squats properly, slowly and with expert coaching?
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  9. Outis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2011 11:16pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    1. Stop doing throws where you have to get down low on people significantly shorter than you. Bam problem solved.
    Thing is, we rotate around doing uchikomi drills for particular throws and I end up getting paired with shorter people.

    2. Pull uke off balance more, the higher uke's COG the less low you have to go to get underneath it.
    Good point.

    3. Pivot forwards rather than pivoting backwards into uke. See here for a demo:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KlLPsU8-ds#t=3m

    You'll probably need to do this on the move as its awkward doing it statically. See here for an explanation of how to do it on the move.
    Thanks for the vid and the blog.
  10. Outis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2011 11:39pm


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Taking uke away seems to magically solve all their flexibility/ getting low enough issues.
    Take away the barbell or take away the uke and the problem is still there for me. Here's what happens when I go into a squat position: For a very short distance, I go down with my back straight and my knees and ankles flexing. At the point my ankles stop flexing, my torso starts inclining forward as my knees continue to flex. This forward inclination is what allows me to keep my balance; if I try to continue down with my back straight, my center of gravity starts shifting back to my heels, and if I keep going down that way I'll end up toppling over backwards.
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