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  1. oplus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/24/2011 6:41pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Harai Goshi: Request for advice

    I've recently begun picking up harai goshi; long overdue for a sankyu to do so, probably. One instructor teaches it like a modified-grip o goshi, with the leg thrown straight bacwards to act as a counterweight to keep the tori from falling over, deep hip action. The other advises it done with very little hip, mostly pull and sweep, with a j-shaped leg action. Any thoughts?

    Additionally, what niche can it fill for a seoi nage fighter? In what circumstances will it work better than my seoi nage?
  2. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/24/2011 7:46pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by oplus View Post
    I've recently begun picking up harai goshi; long overdue for a sankyu to do so, probably. One instructor teaches it like a modified-grip o goshi, with the leg thrown straight bacwards to act as a counterweight to keep the tori from falling over, deep hip action. The other advises it done with very little hip, mostly pull and sweep, with a j-shaped leg action. Any thoughts?

    Additionally, what niche can it fill for a seoi nage fighter? In what circumstances will it work better than my seoi nage?
    I'm not sure exactly what the instructions you have received mean. There are a couple of things to watch out for in Harai Goshi.

    1.) It's a hip throw, not a leg throw. Your leg, ideally, should not sweep uke leg,maybe just brush along the outside. It acts a a guide for the hip action.

    2.) See #1.

    3.) I call Harai Goshi a "half hip" throw, because tori does not insert his hip deeply (or as deep as say, O Goshi. You have to position yourself in a "sweet spot" not too shallow and not too deep, and that spot will vary depending on the entry, relative height, grips, etc.

    As far as a throw for a "seoi nage" guy, well, you are a sankyu, if you want to be a yudansha you need to learn Harai Goshi. It's a classic throw, cool as hell, and illustrates some important principles.

    My tokui waza is Seoi Nage in it's various forms. But I love Harai Goshi and like to practice it.

    Try it you'll like it.

    Here it is in living color. Lots of other examples out there as well, be careful though, a lot of them will be doing Harai Goshi as an ashi waza.

    Falling for Judo since 1980
  3. kikoolol is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2011 2:06am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    As always, Ben is right, but there's something I'd like to add.

    While at its core, harai-goshi is a koshi-waza, there's nothing wrong with the ashi-waza version. It's just a matter of preference, what suits you best. That being said, to do harai-goshi correctly with a strong reaping action you need to focus on the classical version first to understand the nuances. I'd also suggest that you practice the version your teachers show that resembles most the one shown on the video.
  4. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2011 3:56am

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    Like Ben I don't really understand your description of what it is you're being taught.

    I've found that generally people who have to switch from standard sleeve lapel grip to a round the back or belt grip for throws like Uchi mata and Harai goshi do so because their tsurikomi is poor and so to compensate for this they take the round the back grip.

    I don't really do koshi waza, however, harai goshi is one of the few I can do passably.

    I aim to place my hip in the nook created around uke's iliacus muscle





    I then load uke onto my hip before sweeping, so that I don't sweep uke's legs I just sweep the air.

    Like this guy



    That's about the extent of my Harai goshi knowledge, really.
  5. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2011 5:25pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by kikoolol View Post
    As always, Ben is right, but there's something I'd like to add.

    While at its core, harai-goshi is a koshi-waza, there's nothing wrong with the ashi-waza version. It's just a matter of preference, what suits you best. That being said, to do harai-goshi correctly with a strong reaping action you need to focus on the classical version first to understand the nuances. I'd also suggest that you practice the version your teachers show that resembles most the one shown on the video.
    If you use your leg, it's not really Harai Goshi. There are important lessons to be learned by learning/doing Harai Goshi correctly, which is distinctly not using your leg to sweep. I see you revert back to the necessity of learning the "classical" form, which is good.

    Also, it's a SWEEP (harai) not a REAP (kari), and the difference is critical to understand. There is no reaping in Harai Goshi. Unless you want to injure uke knee, that is.

    Ben
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  6. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2011 5:28pm

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    Bill explains very well here using PTNippons video as a guide. I suggest you read his post very carefully. The shifting of the weight from center to the support leg is critical to get. It is also something that applies in a lot of other throws.

    http://judoforum.com/index.php?/topi...i/page__st__24
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  7. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2011 5:30pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Like Ben I don't really understand your description of what it is you're being taught.

    I've found that generally people who have to switch from standard sleeve lapel grip to a round the back or belt grip for throws like Uchi mata and Harai goshi do so because their tsurikomi is poor and so to compensate for this they take the round the back grip.

    I don't really do koshi waza, however, harai goshi is one of the few I can do passably.

    I aim to place my hip in the nook created around uke's iliacus muscle





    I then load uke onto my hip before sweeping, so that I don't sweep uke's legs I just sweep the air.

    Like this guy



    That's about the extent of my Harai goshi knowledge, really.
    I know the guy in the third video is a what, kudan or judan, but he's really whacking at the guys leg, which is going to confuse beginners/novices. I just don't know what to think when I see stuff like that.

    Ben
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  8. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2011 5:45pm

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     Style: Judo

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    This is going to cause you all sorts of problems then...

  9. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2011 6:05pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    This is going to cause you all sorts of problems then...

    No doubt, Okano can do it however he wants and call it Harai Goshi.

    Maybe that is the "j" shaped leg that the OP was writing about?

    If you look right at the end, before the last throw, though, you can see the little 'spring' or "bounce" and shift of weight that PTNippon/Bill were writing about.

    Ben
    Falling for Judo since 1980
  10. oplus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2011 7:02pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

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    Not J-shaped leg, J-shaped leg action. The same one that is advised for (I think) sasae.
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