Question Blue Belt Gi Video from NAGA

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 12:49am

OK, this is the video in question, please watch it first before looking at the questions below it.
YouTube- NAGA Georgia July 10, 2010 Middleweight Blue Belt Gi second match

The white guy with the fauxhawk thing (he shaves it off after NAGA) is from our gym. He completely shut his opponent down, flipped him over and took side control. The ref gave him 3 points, then the other guys coach complained, and the ref took the points back. They then gave the match to the other guy after time ran out based on him being "more active".
I've read the gi rules over and over again just be sure, but he should have gotten at least 2 points for establishing side control and holding it for almost a minute.
Can anyone explain to me why my team mate would NOT have won that match? Is there ANY way to get to side control without scoring ANY points?

**DKJr** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 1:03am

If not the side control points he should've received takedown points when the guy failed his throw and then turtled. Otherwise total bs. He should've won even a ref's decisions for being in control through out the match, on the ground for being in a dominate position for a long period of time.

**danno** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 4:25am

in my honest opinion, your friend won. he was more defensive in the stand up and didn't work as much as the other guy for a takedown, but that doesn't matter because he got side control.

you've overlooked the real problem here - the other coach was brazilian, and they are all cheating mongrel bastards. i see this kinda **** happen in comps all the time, and it's happened to me.

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 8:39am

It makes me mad that I wasn't there since I would have gone to bat for him, but I was out of town on work so he was our senior guy there and he's used to having me in his corner for crap like that.

**Kambei Shimada** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 9:09am

Wow that's some bad decision. You're friend most certainly won.

**danno** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 9:21am

Originally Posted by Kintanon

It makes me mad that I wasn't there since I would have gone to bat for him, but I was out of town on work so he was our senior guy there and he's used to having me in his corner for crap like that.

i just try not to let it bother me and tell myself that i'm not competing for money or anything. when some brazilian coach is screaming at a ref like that, the outcome of the match is obviously a lot more important to them than it is to me.

doesn't make it right though.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 9:33am

The ref was an idiot and allowed himself to get bullied by the other coach. The argument was that there was no take down, guard was not passed and you went from a back transition to top side control position. In other words you haven't moved from a lower position to a higher position. Complete bullshit on any count. Ref should be reprimanded but I realize that Naga officials aren't that professional.

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 7/12/2010 10:53am

Yeah, I could understand that reasoning if he had been given points for back control, then it makes sense not to give points for side. Ah well, live and learn. He should have worked to mount the guy or sub him and leave no room for bullshit.
The dude is a great wrestler with great takedowns until he gets on the mats, then he gets all passive in the standup for some reason. Maybe this will help motivate him to push harder and work to finish more often.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 7/23/2010 9:51am

Missing post moved here: Forum detritus #452 - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

**sambosteve** · Posted On: 7/23/2010 12:58pm

Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless

The ref was an idiot and allowed himself to get bullied by the other coach. The argument was that there was no take down, guard was not passed and you went from a back transition to top side control position. In other words you haven't moved from a lower position to a higher position. Complete bullshit on any count. Ref should be reprimanded but I realize that Naga officials aren't that professional.

Agreed. Bullshit call by the ref. Reffing is not for the feint of heart and big events like these often have shitty refs.

This situation shows a built in problem with scoring "passes" instead of positions themselves. In other words, scoring how one got to the position, instead of the position itself. Kin's guy got to side control and kept it (as well as top control for most of the time after that). Even the rules state:

http://nagafighter.com/index.php?module=rulepage#IBJJF

B-) PASSING THE GUARD: Is when the athlete that is above his adversary or in between his legs, moves to his opponent’s side, establishing a perpendicular or longitudinal position over his adversary’s trunk, dominating him and leaving him no space to move or to escape the position—if even is on his side or back. 3 points NOTE: if the athlete that is underneath avoids the move by getting to his knees or standing up, the initiative will not be awarded 3 points but will be awarded an advantage.

Kin's guy was clearly "above his adversary" before establishing side control and north south.