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  1. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2010 7:39pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Grant/Messerly trial verdict opinions?

    Verdict just in involuntary manslaughter thoughts?

    Eat Bay residents?
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  2. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/08/2010 7:44pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    Verdict just in involuntary manslaughter thoughts?

    Eat Bay residents?
    Not Eastbay but...

    How the hell do you "involuntarily" hold your duty weapon to a restrained prisoners head?

    I'd call that a negligent homicide at the very least.
  3. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2010 7:48pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought he drew thinking he was pulling a taser from the get go.

    It has happened before:

    http://www.streetgangs.com/features/..._meyer_witness

    Sacramento, California – On March 10, 2001, Sacramento Police officer Officer Thomas Shrum shot Steven Yount in the left buttock while four officers were trying to subdue and transport him to jail following his arrest for driving under the influence of alcohol (DUI). As Yount, who was handcuffed and in leg restraints, struggled, squirmed and kicked the inside of the police car, Officer Shrum, intending to draw and fire his TASER© gun, instead pulled out and discharged his nine-millimeter pistol. Immediately after the shooting, Shrum exclaimed, “Oh God, I shot, I shot.” Shrum was armed with an M26 TASER at the time and had to be consoled after the shooting and expressed concern about the suspect at the time who survived.

    Rochester, Minneapolis – On September 2, 2002 Officer Greg Siem was having trouble subduing a Sudanese refugee, Christopher Atak, who was under arrest for being drunk and disorderly. When Siem pulled out what he thought was his TASER, he in fact pulled out his firearm and shot once into the man’s back puncturing his intestine, colon and gall bladder. Immediately after the shooting, Officer Siem called an ambulance and apologized to Atak who survived the shooting. According to court documents, “Officer Siem attempted to use a reasonable amount of force to detain an individual who was actively resisting arrest…In a tense, uncertain and rapidly evolving situation, there is absolutely nothing excessive about Officer Siem’s actions,” wrote his attorney. This is where Mehserle’s attorney Michael Rain’s apparently formulated their defense, because on multiple occasions throughout the trial, Rains has told the jury that Mehserle’s mistake was a result of a “tense and rapidly evolving situation.” Siem had drawn his TASER from a cargo pocket on his strong side.

    Madera, California – On October 27, 2002, a City of Madera police officer who was carrying her black M26 TASER on the strong side, shot and accidentally killed Everardo Torres, 24, who was already handcuffed. Officer Marcy Noriega, said, “I put the fucking TASER on he wrong side,” after she realized she shot the suspect with her firearm. She also stated, “please don’t die, please don’t die,” as Torres was being treated for his wound. Officer Torres had a prior incident in which she confused her TASER and her Glock when she was first issued the M26 model. Witnesses heard officer Noriega warn Torres that she was going to use her TASER if he continued to kick the inside of the patrol car. She wore her M26 TASER on the thigh holster on the same side as Glock semiautomatic pistol bellow her firearm. Also her gun and TASER were both equipped with the red laser sights.

    Somerset County, Maryland – On October 20, 2003, Frederick P. Henry was fleeing arrest from Somerset County Deputy Sheriff Robert Purnell when he reached back to unholster his black TASER M26, but then drew and fired his gun at Henry. Purnell claims that he had mistakenly grabbed his Glock .40-caliber handgun when he shot Henry in the elbow. On the scene, Deputy Purnell told Henry and other witnesses that he used the wrong weapon which he had on his strong side.

    Kitsap County, Washington – On June 22, 2006, in Navy Yard City, Bremerton, Kitsap County Sheriff Deputy Tiffany Dobbins shot her firearm when she intended to use her TASER that she wore on her strong side. William A. Jones, 32, had been acting delusional in a tree for five hours prior to Deputy Dobbins’ arrival. Jones had been unsuccessfully by another deputy on the scene, but Jones was able to remove the probes and then he climbed higher in the tree. After the failed attempt Deputy Dobbins was verbally requested to deploy her TASER on Jones, and she responded by accidentally shooting Jones once in the leg. Her immediate reaction was “Oh my God, oh my God, what did I do?” Criminal charges were considered by the Office of the Attorney General of Washington but after a lengthy investigation they declined to prosecute Dobbins.

    Victoria, British Columbia, Canada – Daniel Hammond, 25, was shot in the abdomen by Constable Mike Miller on September 10, 2005. Hammond had reportedly caused a disturbance outside a restaurant and resisted when police attempted to arrest him. Miller reached for his X26 TASER to subdue Hammond but came up with his Glock and shot Hammond. Miller had been wearing the TASER on his weak side, but after he first pulled out the TASER he returned it to a cargo pocket on his strong side when he was attempting to handcuff Hammond. When Hammond continued to resist, Miller thought he was drawing TASER when he shot Hammond. Interim Police Chief Bill Naughton said the force has since replaced the model of TASER used in 2005 with ones that don’t feel the same as the Glock handgun.

    Under direct examination, Meyer said that the TASER should always be worn on the weak side and drawn only with the weak hand. Mehserle on the night of the shooting was wearing the TASER on weak side that allowed him to cross draw with his strong hand, which Meyer believes should not be allowed.
    Thats why we (my dept) carry on weak side thigh holsters ...
  4. Mtripp is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2010 8:33pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I saw the video it was obvious what happened. He was under stress, went for his taser which for some unknown reason was on the same side as his glock; and both have almost identical handles, and OMG, bang rather than Buzz.

    Whoever made the decisions for gear and duty carry should go to jail, but they never do.

    The racial aspect didn't help things either.
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  5. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 12:00am

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    I think the jury system works quite well and I think this jury found a decent verdict.

    Yes the confusion was the reason according to the officer and the coutnerpoint was the relative weight of each weapon.

    Just a trajedy all around and from what I have heard Oakland is getting jacked tonight... I have to go through there in a few minutes.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  6. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 12:04am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Not Eastbay but...

    How the hell do you "involuntarily" hold your duty weapon to a restrained prisoners head?

    I'd call that a negligent homicide at the very least.
    Sorry MM anyone can have an opinion, I just know we have a few guys in that area of town...

    Effective next month we are moving the dojo to the Mission So if you ever make it down to the area and want to stop in I will get you a new location. I have been told where we are and I know where we are, basically it will be the corner of Duboce and 14th catty corner to Ziegiest... which is an old scooter bar in the city. I know i know scooter bar haha! yeah. tough guys those scooter riders
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  7. Iainkelt is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 12:37am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Not Eastbay but...

    How the hell do you "involuntarily" hold your duty weapon to a restrained prisoners head?

    I'd call that a negligent homicide at the very least.
    I haven't followed this particular case but "involuntary manslaughter" generally refers to your level of negligence or recklessness. Not, explicitly, whether or not you carried out some part of the act voluntarily. In California, there are three types of manslaughter: voluntary, involuntary (either when a killing occurs during the commission of a misdemeanor, or through gross negligence as I'm guessing is alleged here) and vehicular manslaughter.

    My best guess is that the jury didn't believe that the defendant had the necessary mental state to be found guilty of murder, so involuntary manslaughter, meaning that they believed he was grossly negligent in his actions, was the next best choice.
  8. RaiderFunk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 2:16am


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    I thought the evidence warranted a murder 2 conviction. The officer acted wrecklessly with no regard for human life. Involuntary manslaughter was a terrible verdict for this case. There was no possible way that this professionally trained officer could mistake a tazer for a gun. He took the gun, assessed, aimed and shot. If that had been a taser during one of those steps he would have realized he had a taser. I am definitely at a loss of why he would taser someone with another cops knee on the kids head, but that's another issue.

    I don't blame the jury though, it is what it is. The bright side is I believe this is the first time a cop has ever been found guilty for any crime that resulted in the death of a suspect.
  9. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 2:33am


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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJayBoogie View Post
    There was no possible way that this professionally trained officer could mistake a tazer for a gun.
    Yes..there is. This has happened before. I listed a few such incidents upthread. It usually has to do with strong side carry or a strong side draw.
  10. RaiderFunk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2010 2:56am


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    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    Yes..there is. This has happened before. I listed a few such incidents upthread. It usually has to do with strong side carry or a strong side draw.
    that resulted in a murder? So he was trained to put the holster on the weak-side but tonight he put it on the strong side along with his gun? Also, the family contends that when you see the footage in color he pulls his taser first and then pulls his gun. The defense witness made this claim as well. I believe in comparing apples to apples. Do cops mistake their tazers for guns? maybe, do the mistake them for guns after taking gun, assessing target, aiming and then firing?
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