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  1. money is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 1:50pm

    supporting member
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    NRA

    The NRA seems to have a monopoly on most firearm training, and some ranges in my area even require a membership in order to shoot there. I am all for protecting the second amendment, but it's my opinion that they go way outside that mission and I am leery of giving money to an organization that supports individuals that are an anathema to everything I believe in. (Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Chuck Norris, etc.).

    So what is a pro-gun progressive to do?
    :Determined:
    HTFU and join Bullshido on Fitocracy!
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  2. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 1:59pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://gunowners.org/

    Not as big or lobby-y.

    Other than that, find a buddy with a patch of woods.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  3. Mtripp is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 1:59pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Money View Post
    The NRA seems to have a monopoly on most firearm training, and some ranges in my area even require a membership in order to shoot there. I am all for protecting the second amendment, but it's my opinion that they go way outside that mission and I am leery of giving money to an organization that supports individuals that are an anathema to everything I believe in. (Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Chuck Norris, etc.).

    So what is a pro-gun progressive to do?
    Wow... Here is a thought, STOP supporting people who WILL eliminate the 2nd amendment given half a chance. There is a reason the NRA grades people the way they do and it is not about right, left, etc.

    Wait till the progressives try and tell you that the second amendment is about duck hunting.

    Sorry, but I think its one or the other. For good reason.
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  4. money is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 2:16pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Wow... Here is a thought, STOP supporting people who WILL eliminate the 2nd amendment given half a chance. There is a reason the NRA grades people the way they do and it is not about right, left, etc.

    Wait till the progressives try and tell you that the second amendment is about duck hunting.

    Sorry, but I think its one or the other. For good reason.
    See, that is where I don't agree. I don't think anything is a black or white issue, and I especially hate how currently you have to choose one of two sides and accept all the bad with the good.

    It's my opinion that the best chance for the second amendment is to make the issue more approachable by the other side. A lot of my friends are either very open on gun ownership or gun owners themselves, but don't get involved in the issue because doing so means supporting a crowd that is opposite politically on most every other issue.
    :Determined:
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  5. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 2:28pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    every state needs a VCDL.
  6. BadUglyMagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 2:37pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Money View Post
    It's my opinion that the best chance for the second amendment is to make the issue more approachable by the other side.
    The second Amendment is a civil right, not an issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Money View Post
    A lot of my friends are either very open on gun ownership or gun owners themselves

    You mean that your friends are exercising a civil right that still exists largely because of the NRA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Money View Post
    but don't get involved in the issue because doing so means supporting a crowd that is opposite politically on most every other issue.
    That is quite a mentality.



    Are you at UAH?
  7. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 3:46pm

    Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Money View Post
    The NRA seems to have a monopoly on most firearm training, and some ranges in my area even require a membership in order to shoot there. I am all for protecting the second amendment, but it's my opinion that they go way outside that mission and I am leery of giving money to an organization that supports individuals that are an anathema to everything I believe in. (Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Chuck Norris, etc.).

    So what is a pro-gun progressive to do?
    Join the JPFO?
    http://www.jpfo.org/

    I won't try to sell you on GOA since they are kind of a scam.
  8. wonko221 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 4:03pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm in complete agreement with the OP. I am almost amused, but not surprised, by the reaction to their perspective.

    I am a target shooter. I also believe in protecting the gun ownership rights of people who hunt, people who shoot for sports, and people who want to take personal responsibility for their safety. Actually, that's not a complete list; I don't think anyone needs to justify to ME or the government why they want a weapon, insofar as they don't have a record of violent criminal behavior.

    That being said, i agree with OP that the NRA goes beyond advocating shooters' rights and throws their support behind ideas and people that are antithetical to my view of constitutional and rational governance. Much in the same way that i'd beat a man who kicked my dog, but i don't trust the folks at PETA.

    American politics is extraordinarily complex, and deciding to support the NRA for the single issue of 2nd Amendment rights while ignoring that this support helps candidates that push their theology, purported values, and hyperbolic rhetoric on my constitution is just too hard to swallow.
  9. autospike is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 4:42pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not exactly happy with some of the folks the NRA supports - for instance Pallin & Beck. But I don't think there is any other organization out there that does what the NRA can do when it comes to defending the 2A. I really like JPFO and have been an off and on member over the years, but I don't think they have the muscle of the NRA.

    The training stuff the NRA is putting out now is really very good. I'm talking about their intro stuff - basic pistol, rifle, shotgun, and even the self defense in the home. They have put a lot of time and money into the coursework and it's pretty solid. Especially for someone new to shooting. They don't do any serious FOF stuff, but that's another story.

    Finally, the reason ranges want you to be a member is for insurance. The NRA helps provide these ranges with good rates. If it weren't for them, a lot of these places (and a lot of the trainers) wouldn't be around. They have defined certain policies, standards, certifications, etc. that help the insurance folks feel a little more comfortable in writing policies.

    As a disclaimer, I'm an NRA life member and an NRA certified instructor.
  10. Robstafarian is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/13/2010 4:55pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wonko221 View Post
    I'm in complete agreement with the OP. I am almost amused, but not surprised, by the reaction to their perspective.

    I am a target shooter. I also believe in protecting the gun ownership rights of people who hunt, people who shoot for sports, and people who want to take personal responsibility for their safety. Actually, that's not a complete list; I don't think anyone needs to justify to ME or the government why they want a weapon, insofar as they don't have a record of violent criminal behavior.

    That being said, i agree with OP that the NRA goes beyond advocating shooters' rights and throws their support behind ideas and people that are antithetical to my view of constitutional and rational governance. Much in the same way that i'd beat a man who kicked my dog, but i don't trust the folks at PETA.

    American politics is extraordinarily complex, and deciding to support the NRA for the single issue of 2nd Amendment rights while ignoring that this support helps candidates that push their theology, purported values, and hyperbolic rhetoric on my constitution is just too hard to swallow.
    DIT-fucking-TO!

    An occupational therapist with whom I used to discuss guns was completely mystified as to why I'd let all the rest of the NRA's activities prevent me from becoming a member. In fact, I'll borrow another fellow's words:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter S. Thompson writing on July 15, 1968
    [...]Anyway, I like the idea of a chat with the NRA. I'm not sure what [a magazine's managing editor] wants, but one aspect that interests me is what the NRA does with all that money. Dues are $5 a year, and with 900,000 members, that adds up...and all you get for your $5 is 12 issues of the American Rifleman, one of the dullest and least informative screeds in the history of printing.

    [...]The thrust of the thing could be that the NRA is a hype, that they're using their 900,000 members, rather than representing them. I own about a dozen guns, but as far as I'm concerned the NRA is blowing my gig. That waterhead president (Orth?) doesn't speak for me. So, speaking as a badlands gun freak, I have to wonder what they're doing with my $5. I don't read their magazine, I don't have access to "military ammo," I don't get weapons at a discount...all I get is a lot of stupid grumbling about maintaining an armed militia, or something like that. They send me letters that I'm supposed to sign, or rewrite, and forward to my congressman. **** them. "My congressman" is a senile bag of pus and he agrees with the NRA, anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    cuz FastPass on Indiana Jones was like being a ghetto rock star.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiko
    But graffiti isn't a bowl of fruit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    Merely insulting you is not an ad hominem fallacy: them calling you an idiot would be ad hominem if they said "You are an idiot, therefore your argument is invalid."

    What is instead happening is thus:
    1. Your argument is bullshit.
    2. You keep repeating, and expanding upon, your argument.
    3. Therefore, you are an idiot.

    That isn't an ad hominem fallacy; that's inductive reasoning.
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