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  1. kaptenen is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Posted On:
    1/06/2010 8:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    san da questions

    So, I spent some time reading about sanshou, long story short. . . I found this
    school. http://whitepheonix.com/about.html
    The owner makes a bunch of interesting claims which might be BS? I added a few notes and articles regarding the school and Mr.C. My attempts at contacting said person didn’t result in anything. So, my question to the kung fu/san shou crowd is; IS THIS TRUE?
    Also, I know nothing about this guy personally, we don’t even live on the same continent, I just assumed people would be interested in some of the statements made by Mr.C. I know that inflated records are common in martial arts and coming from a BJJ background I believe that one shouldn’t lie about these things.
    I don’t know if there are rules concerning my identity as a possible accuser? I prefer to be somewhat anonymous on the internet but if any of the mods want to PM me questions regarding my personal info im cool with that.
    So, lets start.
    http://whitepheonix.com/about.html
    This part covers the history of the style itself and some personal information regarding Mr.C and his relationship to instructors etc.

    The following is articles from “aspen times”.
    http://whitepheonix.com/news.html

    The eye of the Phéonix
    By By Tim Mutrie
    Aspen Times Staff Writer
    November 21, 2003
    This article seem to be the first article to surface in the Aspen area regarding the adventures of Mr.C. The article describes Mr.Cs endeavors as a martial artist and a successful business man, it also describes his competitive past and his training throughout his life. I REALLY RECOMMEND READING THIS ARTICLE, IT IS FUNNY AS ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤. Bellow im highlighting the factual claims he is making in the article regarding his competitive past.
    The article has tons of shady and presuably false information, however these claims can easily be verified.
    Claims: Undefeated record
    Won 2003 San Shou world championships in Rome, 75-85 kilo weight class. Won the gold medal by stopping an opponents heart with a “tornado punch”.
    Is the first American to win a world championship in Sanshou.
    Won a national qualifier in Sacramento, CA.
    Able to punch 11 times a second, Bruce Lee was clocked at 13
    Fought in a “kumite” in China, defeating “a 280-pound Japanese sumo; a Muay Thai fighter renowned for kicking coconut trees and opponents’ shins;
    and a Penjakate Silate fighter from Indonesia who had metal ribbon woven into his skin all the way up both forearms”.
    “won the 1999 U.S. Open Kung Fu Championship in San Ramon, Calif., without getting
    hit once.”
    Problems: I am not able to find ANY records whatsoever of this man competing in a sanshaou, san shaou or san da (or however one wants to spell it) competition anywhere in the world. It is pretty weird that someone with an undefeated record and multiple championship titles, both domestic and international, is totally unknown on the internet.
    Also, open-hand gloves and elbow-strikes in sanshou?

    White Phoenix rising
    By Jon Maletz
    September 30, 2006
    This article deals, mainly, with one of his students, but Mr.C steals some of the spotlight.
    Claims: Mr.Cs top student Brandon won competitions in Jamaica and Oakland, CA.
    Getting ready for the USA Hawaii World Games, which could qualify him for the Olympics.
    Problems: Cannot find any official competition results whatsoever regarding Brandon B. cannot find any info on USA Hawaii World Games. And kung fu in the Olympics?



    White Phéonix athletes fly high in World Games
    By Jon Maletz
    October 20, 2006
    A follow-up on the previous article, they all dominated the competition.
    Claims: Brandon took silver in forms and weapons and gold in some kind of NHB-type fight?
    Qualified for the Olympic qualifier?
    Another student took gold in forms.
    Problems- still impossible to find any information regarding this competition or the “Olympic qualifier” Mr.C is talking about.




    Here is all the info I can find on him
    "Brandon Briscoe" kung fu - Google-sökning=
    http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20...NEWS/106010029

    White Phoenix Kung Fu - Martial Arts Planet
    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...p/t-11257.html
    White Phoenix Kung Fu - Martial Arts




    rjryajen90@gmail.com
  2. Lindz is online now

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Burnaby B.C.
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    3,004

    Posted On:
    1/06/2010 8:04pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kaptenen View Post
    So, I spent some time reading about sanshou, long story short. . . I found this
    school. http://whitepheonix.com/about.html
    The owner makes a bunch of interesting claims which might be BS? I added a few notes and articles regarding the school and Mr.C. My attempts at contacting said person didn’t result in anything. So, my question to the kung fu/san shou crowd is; IS THIS TRUE?
    What claims does he make? Is what true?
  3. kaptenen is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Posted On:
    1/06/2010 8:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i included a short summary of the newspaper-articles and links to the articles themselves. . .


    first american to win world championship in san shou, kumite-style tournaments etc.

    Claims: Undefeated record
    Won 2003 San Shou world championships in Rome, 75-85 kilo weight class. Won the gold medal by stopping an opponents heart with a “tornado punch”.
    Is the first American to win a world championship in Sanshou.
    Won a national qualifier in Sacramento, CA.
    Able to punch 11 times a second, Bruce Lee was clocked at 13
    Fought in a “kumite” in China, defeating “a 280-pound Japanese sumo; a Muay Thai fighter renowned for kicking coconut trees and opponents’ shins;
    and a Penjakate Silate fighter from Indonesia who had metal ribbon woven into his skin all the way up both forearms”.
    “won the 1999 U.S. Open Kung Fu Championship in San Ramon, Calif., without getting
    hit once.”


    i cant find any verification about this stuff so i wonder if anyone knows anything about ir
  4. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    2,468

    Posted On:
    1/06/2010 10:14pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First of all everything looks very suspicious including the website. Could be a total hoax. Secondly regarding the San Shou competition, I think it was more of a Leitai event and not a San Shou event. Leitai often uses open palm gloves that allow the wearer to grip.

    I don't have time to research this further at the moment but will look into it more on Friday when I have time.
    安氏八极拳学生
  5. kaptenen is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2010 5:20am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thanks man, yeah it seems wierd, but it is alsoe pretty hard to find results from the world championsships and international the san shou websites. it is, furthermore, pretty wierd that a newspaper like Aspen Times would write all this without any factchecking.
  6. kaptenen is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2010 10:48am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fourTwenty View Post
    If you believe this then I can see why your capitalization annoys me.
    yeah sorry about that, my laptop had a mental breakdown so i had to write it all in notepad.

    Well, honestly, I dont believe a word of what he is saying, I just dont want to call him a fraud or anything before i ask some of the experts on these forums. What´s funny is the mix of "bloodsport/kumite"-type lies and the more modern world championships/olympics-type of lies. ´The only thing missing is some sort of military/SF claim.
  7. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2010 2:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The 2003 San Shou World's were in Macau China, not Rome. IIRC 75-85kg spans 3 distinct weight classes. 80kg was Cung's weight class.

    Maybe we should have Steve ask Max Chen if he remembers this guy being on the national team that year.

    The first American to Medal at the worlds was Jason Yee (Taolu). I don't know if Cung was the very first American to medal in San Shou, but he won his first bronze in 1996.

    This guy is full of ****.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  8. kaptenen is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2010 5:19pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah being a US open champ seem like a load of crap too White Phoenix Kung Fu - Martial Arts

    Also, most of his comps seem to have been in california, in Cungs weightclass. Wierd they never fought eachother.

    James fanisher(sp?) was also on the 2003 team in said wieghtclass. http://www.jamestheeducator.com/ still no mention of a Castillo on the team.
  9. kaptenen is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2010 5:25pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    unemployment makes me productive, here is an article with Castillo claiming ""We have a competition coming up in October in Honolulu," Castillo said. "If he takes first there then he will qualify for the Olympic trials. Then he'll be able compete to be on the team. I would be surprised if he didn't qualify to go as far as the trials."

    Castillo knows, because he is a judge and coach for the U.S. National Team"


    http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20...profile=search
  10. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

    Join Date
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    9,474

    Posted On:
    1/07/2010 11:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Olympic San Shou? Suuuuure...
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
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