Black Belt in Mixed Martial Arts?

**SORT14** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 1:38pm

Having been around the sport of MMA for a while, I know there are no "belts". A karate school down the street from my house claims to have instructors that are Black Belts in mixed martial arts "system". Clearly trying to qualify themselves to the prospective MMA student. Though they can always say it is their "system", I still think it's a little iffy. They also say they have blue belts in BJJ.

www.warriordefense.com

**elipson** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 1:54pm

This is a wierd gray zone in Martial Arts. Every other system can have belts, but not mma? If someone has been doing mma for x years and has been teaching for y years, I think its fair that they can claim/recieve a "black belt" for that accomplishment. More than anything its a business thing. The ultimate test of course would be how well they or their students fights, but honestly now, how many shitty martial arts systems hold themselves to that standard?

The website you linked to doesn't seem that bad. They seem to be associated with Gracie Barra and have pics proving instruction from some notable instructors. They teach Arnis (which I like), and they credit their blue belts to the Gracie Barra instructors. The instructors claiming a black belt in MMA is a little strange, but I wouldn't put too much weight on that. Its unusual, but in reality a black belt for most clubs would just denote a teacher. If it's an mma club, and they have been there long enough to be instructors, doesn't that equal a black belt from that school? They are pretty clear that they don't have BB in BJJ, just blue belts.

Claiming to have a black belt is mostly just marketing, as I'm betting this school would tell you. Marketing doesn't make you a fraud though, it just means you are trying to run a successful business. Most non-martial arts people wouldn't understand if you said you were an instructor but didn't actually have a black belt. It would be gibberish to them and they would run away in confused terror. Because the average new person to martial arts is stupid.

So in conclusion, they seem to be associated with the right people and seem to teach the right things. The only real mark against them is the "mma Black Belt" titles, which are unusual but dont really mean anything is wrong. The only way to test them would be to train with them for a little while. Training under blue belts in BJJ isn't really a bad thing (my first instructor was a blue), but there might be higher BJJ ranks teaching nearby. Even if there is, this school might still be preferable due to what you are looking for and/or good teachers/owners. Alternatively, they may also be a bad choice due to bad teachers/owners, but we can't tell that from a website alone.

**SORT14** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 2:06pm

I agree. I know its a marketing thing and I am not looking to become their student at all. I train with ATT Orlando and I have a purple belt in BJJ, so no big deal. I think they run a good family program from what I've heard and they have plenty of black belts in other martial arts. I don't think they are fraudulent, I just think it is a little off beat to say you have a black belt in MMA.

Great reply and very well thought out.

**Zapruder** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 2:14pm

The martial way in Austin Tx does the same thing, belts in MT and MMA and...

**DarkPhoenix** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 2:40pm

And Tiger Schullman's does the same thing.

**Davros** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 2:59pm

MMA means Mixed Martial Arts, so i think its a bit weird to claim that you have one belt that signifies you are a master, but strangely enough, iv heard of more and more people doing this recently, obviously to do with the massive boom in MMAs popularity.

Besides, as far as im aware, there is no unified MMA governing body, so who would award it?

So iv got to agree with the other guys here and guess hes saying that purely for a bit of PR. I'm not saying write off the club either, just that i wouldnt go around claiming to be a black belt in something that, strictly speaking, you cant be a black belt in, per se.

**Lysol** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 3:19pm

Originally Posted by Davros

MMA means Mixed Martial Arts

...Which is why we will hopefully never see belt ranking in MMA.

After all, when one does mixed martial arts, what arts are they chosing to "mix"? There have been great wrestlers, jiu jitsu guys, kickboxers, sambo guys, a few judoka here and there that are/were successful in MMA, so which arts would you have to be fluent in to earn your "belt" in MMA?

Likewise, this opens up questioning as to which combat sports are "martial arts" and which are just combat sports? Currently, boxing and wrestling are regarded as combat sports by most people, not martial arts. So, does that make a great MMA fighter who mixes boxing and wrestling a black belt due to his success and fluency, or a white belt due to the fact that he studies combat sports, not martial arts?

Likewise, would Paulo Filhio be a black belt because he's a black belt in jiu jitsu, or would be be a purple in MMA because his striking really sucks? I could go on and on...:psyduck:

**elipson** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 3:57pm

I'm not saying write off the club either, just that i wouldnt go around claiming to be a black belt in something that, strictly speaking, you cant be a black belt in, per se.

Who says you can be a black belt in one thing and not in another?

It's all subjective. The only thing that really matters is who considers you worthy of a certain rank, and what you think of that person. Recieving a BB in BJJ from a bad source is just as useless as receiving a BB in mma from a bad source. Conversely, getting an MMA BB from someone like *insert reputable MMA teacher here* would still carry a lot of weight, even if it was unorthodox.

**dethklok** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 4:52pm

Have you called them or gone down there and asked them what qualifies them having a BB in MMA? I would be very interested in there response to that question.

**Slapsymaxi** · Posted On: 9/22/2009 5:47pm

If Pat Miletich wants to say he's a blackbelt in MMA, I can't argue with him.

Likewise, if Yodsaenklai wants to say he's got a blackbelt in Muay Thai, I can't argue with that.

The people that claim a blackbelt in MMA, or Muay Thai, or "Streetfighting" generally aren't. :)

Max