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  1. Plasma is offline
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2009 5:43pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Senjutsu Ryu Ju-jitsu

    Often times I don't see why JJJ doesn't get the same respect as Judo. I mean Judo is just the sport aspect of JJJ and gives JJJ guys a solid rule set to spar under and test techniques. But then I remember that a lot of what passes for JJJ is bad Aikido repackaged with some Karate Striking.

    So what does this have to do with Senjutsu Ryu Jujitsu. Well a poster under the name No BS MMA and Martial Arts - View Profile: Matt Tower@@AMEPARAM@@View Profile: Matt Tower</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Matt Tower from Senjutsu-ryu came onto a thread about sparring to gives this gem of advice:


    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Tower View Post
    Jujutsu is slightly different in we don't generally roll BJJ style, but we demonstrate and learn techniques in the following way
    1 Show the new guy how to perform technique
    2 Let them try technique with No Resistance
    3 Correct their technique
    4 Start amping up the speed and resistance
    5 Do it as a reflex drill

    and


    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Tower View Post
    So of.
    We don't call it randori, we call it reflex so I'm not sure if it proper randori. Reflex is random selection of set attacks/defences.

    So we might doing knife work and do
    High section stab / Wrist crush
    Overhead / Reverse wrist crush
    Kidney stab / Hammer lock and choke
    Mid-section stab / Double hand set arm break

    After we do the four movements we attack our partner randomly with these attacks at 50%-80% speed and they defend with the set defence

    and finally

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Tower View Post
    I understand what you saying but the reason I continue with this style is it's more effective for self-defence than judo and it is real reflex.
    Judo might be more 'live' but if I don't get out the way my partner will stab me
    It might be a piece of wood but they put effort into so you get out the way.


    to which I responded this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    See that doesn't replace sparring/randori. That is just a drill. In fact its a poor version of that type of drill.

    I'll give you an example, at my school testing consists of 3 phases. Technique, Self-defense and Randori. The self-defense section is similar to "reflex training" you describe except the attacks aren't predefined nor telegraphed and the people can use any defense that works. Now this is still drilling. Now for the example. Once I was at another school that will remained unnamed that did your "reflex" training. As a Black Belt on the Mat they asked me to do the attacks for this drill. The gave me a rubber knife and asked me to attack with any attack I wanted. The defender was testing for brown I believe so I stepped in up a notch and attacked with a low stab to the gut switching half way to a reverse grip and changed the angle to the neck. This is a technique I used in knife sparring often. The defender basically froze at this non-telegraphed and unknown (to him) attack. And of course the rubber successfully found its target. Now, if they person sparred he would have to skill to deal with the surprise because it is in sparring and randori where the strike->counter and bait and switch is learned and trained against. The same goes for unarmed randori.

    How lets look at your technique, High section stab/Wrist Crush. What happens when the wrist Crush doesn't work? Or worse it is countered. For example I stab high, you counter with wrist crush, and a drive through and out? Do you practice that scenario? If so how far does it go? What if the wrist crush doesn't work, Do you have another technique?

    What you described is basic drilling and not a replacement for live sparring against someone trying to do the same on you. You aren't learning to fight, you are learn to pretend.
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma View Post
    I find it hilarious that you think practicing a low-percentage wrist lock on a compliant partner prepares you more for a real confrontation then a Judo-ka with hours of "fighting" experience against resisting partners.

    As for your "stab" scenario, their a much higher change you'd experience Tachypsychia than the Judo-ka because you never had anyone in front of your really trying to hurt you. And the fine motor function for your small joint manipulation will disappear.


    So I decided to do some basic research on this JJJ. There is no mention of where Senjutsu-ryu comes from, its not a Ko-ryu and no mention of any art outside of Senjutsu in which the instructors hold rank. The techniques from the photo gallery look like repackaged Aikido.

    Then there is this (spolier tags due to size)

    Spoiler:

    Spoiler:

    Spoiler:

    Spoiler:


    Seriously, I hope someone from the school comes on to clear this up because based on Matt Tower's post and the site, I am sadden by this.

    And to put the icing on the cake. Yes they offer MMA classes. I know it would be a fruitless question to ask for the instructor's MMA record, but I would like know how a school that doesn't spar train MMA fighters? They claim BJJ, those ranks are easily verifiable, what is Dean Watson's BJJ rank?
    Last edited by Plasma; 9/21/2009 5:57pm at .
  2. SoylentNinja is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2009 7:11pm


     Style: Judo n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oh wow, I uh, don't know what to say...

    Actually I would like to know what type of cleaning method they use to keep their gis so white!! Its like they don't sweat at all!
  3. Urban Achiever is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/21/2009 7:18pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SoylentNinja View Post
    oh wow, I uh, don't know what to say...

    Actually I would like to know what type of cleaning method they use to keep their gis so white!! Its like they don't sweat at all!
    You prompted me to use the almighty google.

    http://www.users.bigpond.com/hquick/...tsu/index.html

    http://www.users.bigpond.com/hquick/...tsu/index.html

    This is the only website that hit for the art in the google search. I think there HQ is in the land down under.
  4. Matt Tower is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2009 5:23am


     Style: Jujutsu, learning Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually that's a breakaway school we are here
    http://www.users.bigpond.com/hquick/...tsu/index.html
    Shihans Beckman and Quick on Blitz Covers on the bottom of the gallery page

    Shihan Beckman the head of Our school
    http://www.ajja.org/about-the-ajja/ajja-committee

    Our parent style, Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu on wikipedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutsumi_Hozan_ryu

    Shihan Hans de Jong's site
    http://www.hansdejong.biz/

    Our seminar with Shihan De Jong
    http://www.ajja.org/gallery

    Tsutsumi Ryu Demonstration
    YouTube - Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu Jujutsu - Margaret River

    I may have misrepresented my style as I'm only a blue belt. I am yet to reach techniques like Non weapon arm defences, Double punching attacks, Combination throws where the 1st throw is blocked, Locks to Locks where the 1st lock is countered, Countering throws with Throws. Sharp Machete defences and other sections.

    You also have good points about improving our training, which is why I personally came to Bullshido, in order to improve my personal skills and see if any members had better techniques to share with other styles that I could suggest the acadmy, as my instructor is always interested in improvements, hence the questions about the headgear for knife-work
    Last edited by Matt Tower; 9/22/2009 5:51am at .
  5. Plasma is offline
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2009 6:31am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you have any videos or pictures of your training? If not please describe an average class. I am very skeptical of a school that claims Jujutsu without regular sparring.
    Last edited by Plasma; 9/22/2009 6:47am at .
  6. Yoj is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2009 6:42am


     Style: Aikijujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's not japanese.
  7. Matt Tower is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2009 6:45am


     Style: Jujutsu, learning Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pretty much our training consists
    Warm up / Stretching

    Reflex against Knife Attack
    Blocking and Moving Offline against Standing
    Blocking against against Kneeling position

    Falling

    Working with partners on techniques and reflex defences
  8. Plasma is offline
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2009 6:48am

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     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As for the Video you posted. The techniques are ok... standard JJJ Goshin-jutsu. I didn't see any technique unique to that school. The technique were done well enough, but it been a long time since I been impressed with pre-arranged defense to a highly known and telegraphed attacked, the lunging Tuski.
  9. Plasma is offline
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2009 6:49am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    That's not japanese.
    Can you elaborate?
  10. Plasma is offline
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2009 6:52am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Tower View Post
    Pretty much our training consists
    Warm up / Stretching

    Reflex against Knife Attack
    Blocking and Moving Offline against Standing
    Blocking against against Kneeling position

    Falling

    Working with partners on techniques and reflex defences
    What type of Knife Attack? Have you ever tried your defenses against someone with Knife Training? I'll assume its the big long thrust like in the video. Do you really expect to be attacked like that outside of your kata?
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