222493 Bullies, 4321 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 23
Page 1 of 3 1 23 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. atom is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    sw va
    Posts
    386

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 8:49am


     Style: bum rush karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Stephen Kesting on Lesnar/Mir

    I get the grapplearts.com newsletter (awesome and free btw) and I got this in my email and thought it worth sharing:

    Brock Lesnar probably wouldn't be on my list of people to invite to a book club or an evening of wine tasting. But love him or hate him, you have to admit that he's a hell of a fighter and force to be reckoned with.

    What I found most interesting about Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir at UFC 100 was that it was a case study of how to shut down the half guard.

    Frank spent most of the match in the half guard, and I have no doubt that he has a TON of highly effective sweeps and attacks from there.

    But that night none of his techniques worked on Brock...

    Of course it's partially that Brock Lesnar is a very large human being. I mean he actually cuts weight to make it down to the upper limit for heavyweights (265 lbs)!

    He's also explosive, incredibly agile and has great endurance.

    Let's start by taking a look at two strategies that form the foundation of most successful half guard attacks:
    1. Being on your side, facing your opponent, and
    2. Getting your body under his center of gravity
    Now in the fight Frank Mir was basically never able to apply either strategy, and it wasn't only Brock's physical attributes that shut down Frank Mir's half guard game. There was a lot of deliberate technique there too!

    Brock deliberately kept Frank on his back and/or facing away from him, and also didn't let him get under his center of gravity.

    How did he do this? At various times in the fight Brock used the following techniques and tactics:
    • He stiff armed his neck (keeping Frank away),
    • He pinned the head and moved his body back
    • He turned the head away with his forearm
    • He secured the far underhook and applied chest pressure
    • He used his head to grind into Frank's jaw, and drive into the chest and armpit
    • He grabbed the far armpit to turn Frank's face away and place it directly in the line of fire
    Finally, when Frank tried again to turn in at the very end of the fight, Brock let him turn, and secured the far wrist. The brutal flurry of unanswered blows that ended the fight came right after that.

    The thing is that there are counters and preventive measures to all these half guard top position techniques and tactics. And I'm sure that Frank knows them and practiced them.

    It's just that when the size difference is that large then your timing has to be razor sharp in order to apply your game. And a bit of luck helps too...

    A rematch between these two fighters is inevitable. Maybe the next time Frank will be sharp enough or lucky enough to impose his half guard game on Brock!
    This makes me appreciate Lesnar a lot more.
  2. v1y is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    657

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 9:06am


     Style: Internet Warrior, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They both fought very well, i just think frank regrets that flying knee.

    Brock never really took any unnecessary risks, and frank did a very good job off his back surviving for the most part.
  3. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,856

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 9:15am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think Frank's never going to be able to out grapple Lesnar, it doesn't matter how good you are and Orangutan will always pull your arms off.

    Brooks and Orangutan, just look at the length of his arms!

    Unless you're just as big and strong the
  4. PointyShinyBurn is offline
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar

    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    4,220

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 11:03am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by v1y View Post
    They both fought very well, i just think frank regrets that flying knee.
    It was probably Mir's game plan to go all-out for whatever knock-out opportunity he saw while standing since he was going down as soon as Lesnar chose anyway. The knee wobbled Brock pretty badly and he only ended up where he would have been a few seconds later if he hadn't thrown it.
  5. datdamnmachine is offline
    datdamnmachine's Avatar

    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,721

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 11:59am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is the video that compliments the article, it can be found here as well:

    http://www.grapplearts.com/2009/07/b...mir-how-to.htm

    YouTube - Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir: How to Destroy the Half Guard
  6. Phrost is offline
    Phrost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 1998
    Location
    Cow Town
    Posts
    19,109

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 12:12pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The key point to take away from here is that bottom half-guard is not an offensive position in MMA unless there's just a vast skill and/or attribute gap.
  7. datdamnmachine is offline
    datdamnmachine's Avatar

    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,721

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 1:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    The key point to take away from here is that bottom half-guard is not an offensive position in MMA unless there's just a vast skill and/or attribute gap.
    I don't believe that is the case, per say. Big Nog has been able to effectively use the Half Guard to be offensive. It depends on the ability of the person on top to neutralize the bottom person's Half Guard as well as the ability of the person on the bottom to implement an offensive Half Guard and not have it neutralized by the person on the top.

    In my opinion, Lesner's ability to neutralize Mir's bottom Half Guard game outweighed Mir's ability to implement an offensive bottom Half Guard.

    Not to seem like one of those guys who rags on someone who's been doing BJJ a lot longer than me (and one who does MMA as I don't) but from looking at the fight, it didn't seem like the Half-Guard was one of Mir's go-to positions.

    One thing I noticed was that he kept his Half Guard locked down tight. That "may" help in decreasing the person's ability to posture up and throw some heat but the downside is that you basically wield your hips to theirs. As such, you lose the ability for your hips to be mobile and therefore, escape from Half Guard to a Half Guard variation, Full Guard, Butterfly Guard, knees, standup, etc. It was something I had to deal with when overusing the Lockdown in training.
  8. capt. moroni is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    245

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 5:57pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mir held on to that Lockdown for dear life. That fight made it clear why they say be careful with the Lockdown, because it locks your own hips and kills your mobility.
  9. Phrost is offline
    Phrost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 1998
    Location
    Cow Town
    Posts
    19,109

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 6:08pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by datdamnmachine View Post
    I don't believe that is the case, per say. Big Nog has been able to effectively use the Half Guard to be offensive. It depends on the ability of the person on top to neutralize the bottom person's Half Guard as well as the ability of the person on the bottom to implement an offensive Half Guard and not have it neutralized by the person on the top.
    Nogueira is practically a living exception to all kinds of rules given his insane ability and willingness to endure punishment in order to secure a submission.

    Very few people have the skill and the physical attributes required to get away with that, and it remains to be seen if Nogueira could weather a similar storm from Lesnar himself.

    Let's frame it this way: if I were coaching I'd tell my fighters to recover full guard in 99 out of 100 situations like that. The 100th would be if I were (for some bizarro-world reason) coaching someone of Marcelo Garcia's talent and the guy he was fighting was a.) his size or smaller, and/or b.) not as strong or skilled on the ground.
  10. atom is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    sw va
    Posts
    386

    Posted On:
    7/15/2009 8:13pm


     Style: bum rush karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lesnar can generate ridiculous power using just his arms, no posture required. Future challengers to Brock should learn from Mir's mistake.

    I'd like to point out that GnP from the guard is one of Fedor's greatest assets as well. Brock was also extremely efficient, not wasting any time or energy doing anything but dominating.

    I don't think Brock is going to be beat by anybody off their back. I'm looking forward to seeing if Carwin can put Brock on his back. If he can't, I don't think anyone but Fedor can beat him and I'm not sure he will.
Page 1 of 3 1 23 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.