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  1. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 12:52pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The EXACT throwing rules in MT

    OK

    I've been reading up on the rules of MT and I've run across something odd. I've watched a ton of MT and there is definitely throwing in it. Yet not much mention of thowing is made in the rules, except to say "judo or wrestling holds and armlocks" are a foul.

    I'm going to state my interpreted understanding here and people with more formal MT experience correct me

    In a muay thai fight - throws are not considered scoring blows or true knockdowns, but certain throws are not considered fouls and are a part of "ring dominance" and/or "aggression"

    These include

    catching the kick and sweeping or kicking the other leg
    catching under the knee and circle throwing
    upper body throws performed with such timeing they require no backhold or trip
    Lifting the opponent without clasping the hands or loading the hips
    Torqueing the opponent to the ground in a deep clinch

    Did I put anything on the list wrongfully, or leave any out?

    Also, are these techniques named and/or taught, or are they just sort of pickup technique?

    Finally, I've noticed this is used more in asian thai fighting - I don't see it as often in domestic fighting. Is that a rule variation, a cultural difference, what?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  2. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 3:20pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only technique you listed that I believe to be against the rules is "catching the kick and sweeping or kicking the other leg"

    If you are leveraging your opponent over any part of your body, you are technically in violation of the rules. In practice it all depends on whether Donny has his mullet on straight, and decides to call foul.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  3. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 3:39pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    The only technique you listed that I believe to be against the rules is "catching the kick and sweeping or kicking the other leg"
    This is definitely not against the rules in muaythai. As long as your leg is in motion as the other fighter falls, it's fair game. You simply can't put your leg behind theirs and trip them over it with your leg staying in place. Typically in US sanctioning bodies, you're also not allowed to use foot-foot sweeps since I guess there's a fear that you might damage your opponent's ankle.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  4. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 3:46pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    This is definitely not against the rules in muaythai. As long as your leg is in motion as the other fighter falls, it's fair game. You simply can't put your leg behind theirs and trip them over it with your leg staying in place. Typically in US sanctioning bodies, you're also not allowed to use foot-foot sweeps since I guess there's a fear that you might damage your opponent's ankle.
    that's absolutely right, I should have been more clear. You can't throw them over any posted part of your body (hip, leg, shoulder). If you pick your foot right up you are not in violation of the rules.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  5. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 3:51pm

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache View Post
    OK

    I've been reading up on the rules of MT and I've run across something odd. I've watched a ton of MT and there is definitely throwing in it. Yet not much mention of thowing is made in the rules, except to say "judo or wrestling holds and armlocks" are a foul.

    I'm going to state my interpreted understanding here and people with more formal MT experience correct me

    In a muay thai fight - throws are not considered scoring blows or true knockdowns, but certain throws are not considered fouls and are a part of "ring dominance" and/or "aggression"

    These include

    catching the kick and sweeping or kicking the other leg
    catching under the knee and circle throwing
    upper body throws performed with such timeing they require no backhold or trip
    Lifting the opponent without clasping the hands or loading the hips
    Torqueing the opponent to the ground in a deep clinch

    Did I put anything on the list wrongfully, or leave any out?

    Also, are these techniques named and/or taught, or are they just sort of pickup technique?

    Finally, I've noticed this is used more in asian thai fighting - I don't see it as often in domestic fighting. Is that a rule variation, a cultural difference, what?

    Those are basically all the throws/take downs that I'm aware of in muaythai. You're not allowed to lift your opponent off the ground, period, as far as I've always been told. You can kick their leg out from under them, use their own momentum to toss them (whether it be from throwing a knee or just pushing forward), or you can tip them over with a little upper body shove/redirection.

    All these tosses/throws/whatever are major parts of playing a strong clinch game... which is something gyms in the US typically tend to seriously neglect. Even those that do teach some level of thai clinch don't tend to make it anywhere near as much of a priority as gyms in Thailand, so you don't really see the same level of clinch technique involved. Really, any place outside of Thailand has more of a low kick kickboxing approach to muaythai, so Thai vs. non-thai matches will often involve the Thai resorting to clinch and throws to out do their opponents. I think a reason for this may be that clinch dominance is much more favored by the judges in Thailand than those in other countries.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  6. Matt Phillips is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 3:55pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula View Post
    I think a reason for this may be that clinch dominance is much more favored by the judges in Thailand than those in other countries.
    Good point!
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  7. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 3:55pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    US Schools are also more likely to be competing under low kick or Full Contact Karate rules than MT rules, where the scoring just doesn't allow clinch work the same way. Again we see an example of how competition ruleset drives technique.
  8. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 3:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    US Schools are also more likely to be competing under low kick or Full Contact Karate rules than MT rules, where the scoring just doesn't allow clinch work the same way.
    Not around here anyway.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  9. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 4:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's kind of silly, imo, to not make clinch fighting more of a focus in muaythai classes in the US since most people these days getting into it (as least competitively) are using muaythai as a stepping stone to get into MMA and a strong thai clinch is very useful under MMA rules.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  10. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2009 4:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Plus the clinch rules on the street.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
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