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  1. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2009 5:44pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Chris Crudelli legit?

    I was flicking through one of my Martial Arts Illustrated Mags from December 2008 when I found this interesting letter in their letters page.

    It is written by a Will Henshaw, producer of Mind Body and Kickass moves (or Kickin Moves in the US), the show that made Crudelli famous.

    The following extract is written word for word as it appears in MARTIAL ARTS ILLUSTRATED magazine dated DECEMBER 2008 page 17.

    Did Crudelli Kick Ass?

    Hi Bob,
    In reference to the November Chris Crudelli article some facts regarding Mind, Body and Kick Ass Moves need to be restated.

    For the record Mind, Body and Kick Ass Moves was created by me and my company August Productions Ltd based on my many years in the film and tv industry creating proposals and programmes. I, and no one else, pitched the programme to the BBC. The original inspiration came from my own martial arts training, in Aikido and Kempo Ju Jitsu, a fascination with other forms, the vast number of martial art films I watched before and during the making of 3 series of outTHERE, the cult film clip show and in part the series Way of the Warrior. The actual process of making a programme is a collaborative one, in our case some played a major part whilst others were almost worse than useless.

    Any claims or inferences that any others hold the copyright, pitched or even wrote part of it are false. The BBC contracted myself and my company August Productions Ltd to make the show.

    Chris Crudelli appeared in the series as an unknown presenter and unkown martial artist whose credentials became unverifiable. We made the best of a generally uninformed and reluctant contribution. As for Crudelli's other stories and claims they sound interesting but I'm not convinced.

    Apologies for taking up valuable space however some points are too important to leave unanswered.

    Cheers, Will Henshaw
    Creator, Director and Producer of
    Mind, Body and Kick Ass Moves.


    Interesting if true.
  2. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2009 6:04pm


     Style: Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Have just found Chris Crudelli's new Martial Arts style Home page below

    http://www.wayofthewarriorschool.com/index.html

    YouTube - Martial Edge Meets Chris Crudelli - Tai Chi Fighting


    Despite the amount of BS found in Mind Body and Kick Ass moves the club itself seems to be quite reasonable in its approach, no joining fee although you do have to pay subs but you can train at any of the 3 schools based in london as much as you want for 48 a month. Not too expensive!.
  3. BomberH is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2009 4:58pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ & Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As the creator and director of the show why did Will Henshaw use a presenter who he considered to be:

    unknown presenter and unkown martial artist whose credentials became unverifiable. We made the best of a generally uninformed and reluctant contribution
    Either the letter is a hoax (my guess) or Will Henshaw has sour grapes over so copyright or something Crudelli said. If Crudeli is total bullshit, what does that say about Henshaw's ability as a producer?
  4. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2009 6:45am

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     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BomberH View Post
    As the creator and director of the show why did Will Henshaw use a presenter who he considered to be:



    Either the letter is a hoax (my guess) or Will Henshaw has sour grapes over so copyright or something Crudelli said. If Crudeli is total bullshit, what does that say about Henshaw's ability as a producer?

    Pardon me, Sir Arthur, for hitching a ride but unless I hit the "Reply" button, I can't post at the moment (well, for a few weeks). I dunno, they're trying to upgrade our IT system...

    Anyway, good points re Will Henshaw. I read the original article at the time in MAI and it put a question in my Mind. Nothing specific, just a "Hmmm" type sense of caution.

    FWIW, Chris did a seminar at our club. Whilst he wasn't cheap, it was reasonable at about 10 per hour and he did over 3 hours. He did a nice Elbow drill (9 strikes), both sides each, plus some Knife work and gun disarms, kicking drills. We assimilated this info quite quickly (one student is also a genuine 3rd Dan Judo).

    Afterwards, he held a Q&A session and was open, affable and with a GSOH. He expanded on some of what was shown on screen. He added that it's unlikely that there will be further episodes owing to the BBC being concerned with audience figures and MA is something of a niche market (sad but true).

    He joined us in the Bar (they had to re-open when we turned up) and continued to chat - I was diverted by a couple of colleagues.

    It was enjoyable and I'd be happy to train more with him or under him. It wasn't too deep a session. I can't be critical of him or his ways without seeing more. What more can I say? I enjoyed it, as did we all.
  5. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2009 8:36am


     Style: Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hardon View Post
    Pardon me, Sir Arthur, for hitching a ride but unless I hit the "Reply" button, I can't post at the moment (well, for a few weeks). I dunno, they're trying to upgrade our IT system...

    Anyway, good points re Will Henshaw. I read the original article at the time in MAI and it put a question in my Mind. Nothing specific, just a "Hmmm" type sense of caution.

    FWIW, Chris did a seminar at our club. Whilst he wasn't cheap, it was reasonable at about 10 per hour and he did over 3 hours. He did a nice Elbow drill (9 strikes), both sides each, plus some Knife work and gun disarms, kicking drills. We assimilated this info quite quickly (one student is also a genuine 3rd Dan Judo).

    Afterwards, he held a Q&A session and was open, affable and with a GSOH. He expanded on some of what was shown on screen. He added that it's unlikely that there will be further episodes owing to the BBC being concerned with audience figures and MA is something of a niche market (sad but true).

    He joined us in the Bar (they had to re-open when we turned up) and continued to chat - I was diverted by a couple of colleagues.

    It was enjoyable and I'd be happy to train more with him or under him. It wasn't too deep a session. I can't be critical of him or his ways without seeing more. What more can I say? I enjoyed it, as did we all.
    Nice to hear more positive stuff based on fisrt hand experience rather than the usual supisition.

    I think the letter is more concerned with the Copyright of Mind Body and Kickass moves than anything else. I did not read the article it was written in response to but I would guess that in it Crudelli claimed some of the credit for mind body and kick ass moves, perhaps making out it was his creation and ideas used.

    I doubt the letter was a fake as it does not completely discredit Crudelli rather it implies certain things. If someone was taking the time to complain I imagine they would be more vocal.

    As to the matter of Crudelli's claims being unverifiable, this sounds similar to a lot of claims of lineage or years spent training by many individuals. With China being such a large country and having a difficult language to learn(by western standards) it is quite possible that such claims are unverifiable. Although ten years spent in one place should be easier to prove. I am of the opinion that Crudelli does use hyperbole to bolster his image and history. This is not necessarily an entirely rational feeling rather than a general impression I feel having watched him on Tv and read about him on the internet.

    This is no judgement on his skills which I am sure are real enough. He certainly showed some skill in some of the series. However I felt his kick ass in a crisis was a little unrealistic/flashy in some of the techniques he chose.
  6. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 6:26am

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     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by madmonkey View Post
    Nice to hear more positive stuff based on fisrt hand experience rather than the usual supisition.

    I think the letter is more concerned with the Copyright of Mind Body and Kickass moves than anything else. I did not read the article it was written in response to but I would guess that in it Crudelli claimed some of the credit for mind body and kick ass moves, perhaps making out it was his creation and ideas used.

    I doubt the letter was a fake as it does not completely discredit Crudelli rather it implies certain things. If someone was taking the time to complain I imagine they would be more vocal.

    As to the matter of Crudelli's claims being unverifiable, this sounds similar to a lot of claims of lineage or years spent training by many individuals. With China being such a large country and having a difficult language to learn(by western standards) it is quite possible that such claims are unverifiable. Although ten years spent in one place should be easier to prove. I am of the opinion that Crudelli does use hyperbole to bolster his image and history. This is not necessarily an entirely rational feeling rather than a general impression I feel having watched him on Tv and read about him on the internet.

    This is no judgement on his skills which I am sure are real enough. He certainly showed some skill in some of the series. However I felt his kick ass in a crisis was a little unrealistic/flashy in some of the techniques he chose.
    Ta, I'm largely in agreement with all of your reply. Certainly I was sceptical on an aspect of an Interview in MAI regarding his Italian relatives waking him at night and scaring him (I'll refrain from adding the rest that was published) because this aspect seemed more like the overly emotional imagination of a frightened child caught between his parents separation. I don't know nor did I ask him...I forgot and I was talking to 2 colleagues at the time.

    Copyright is probably an issue and like many, a condition of the seminar was no video/pics except afterwards. Personally, I anticipated some "tricks", some questionable technique, some legitimate technique. Happily, I was wrong; it was all usable. I also thought him an empathetic and Good instructor. No complaints from me.

    As an aside, he did tell us he was taught by Chinese instructors in Birmingham. His words, "Bad men but good technique" - and this seems fair.

    Cheers
  7. socratic is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 8:38am


     Style: gah, transition again

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If memory serves Chris claimed (at some point) that at least the basics of his training came from when he homestayed with a family in China; he said he'd learnt kung fu and lived with them in exchange for working for them.

    As for his legitimacy as a fighter, well, he doesn't have a fight record but I recall in Mind Body Kickass Moves he won at least one of his sparring matches, against an FMAer if memory serves. Everything about the guy seems largely up in the air.

    Edit: Huh. Back in the UK, eh? I wonder whether maybe the homestay was made up for the camera?
    Last edited by socratic; 5/29/2009 9:00am at .
    Lord Krishna said: I am terrible time the destroyer of all beings in all worlds, engaged to destroy all beings in this world; Of those heroic soldiers presently situated in the opposing army, even without you none will be spared.
    Bhagavad Gita 11:32
  8. Eddie Hardon is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 9:46am

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     Style: Trad Ju Jitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by socratic View Post
    If memory serves Chris claimed (at some point) that at least the basics of his training came from when he homestayed with a family in China; he said he'd learnt kung fu and lived with them in exchange for working for them.

    As for his legitimacy as a fighter, well, he doesn't have a fight record but I recall in Mind Body Kickass Moves he won at least one of his sparring matches, against an FMAer if memory serves. Everything about the guy seems largely up in the air.

    Edit: Huh. Back in the UK, eh? I wonder whether maybe the homestay was made up for the camera?
    He said he started in Birmingham (UK) - which is where he's from - and later went to Hongkers and China. Don't know much more than that and what was said in the MBKAM series on the BBC.
  9. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 10:34am

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have one of his books, I posted a thread about it in here somewhere. I was asking some of the CMA historical people about the content of the book. The responses I got were that he was being very general and all inclusive for the book.

    He included some arts like Ninjitsu and a couple of others like CKD, and others that I can't remember off the top of my head. But he did state in his book that he studied Ninjitsu extensively.

    I know that a some of the material that was included is not entirely accurate and some I would have left out. But he traveled all of the world to collect the information for the book and trained with lots of people. He included training in Muay Thai, BJJ, WC, and lots of other stuff.

    Interesting book but some stuff stuck out. Like that fact that he gives so much credibility to Ninjitsu.
  10. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2009 8:54pm


     Style: Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_tke View Post
    I have one of his books, I posted a thread about it in here somewhere. I was asking some of the CMA historical people about the content of the book. The responses I got were that he was being very general and all inclusive for the book.

    He included some arts like Ninjitsu and a couple of others like CKD, and others that I can't remember off the top of my head. But he did state in his book that he studied Ninjitsu extensively.

    I know that a some of the material that was included is not entirely accurate and some I would have left out. But he traveled all of the world to collect the information for the book and trained with lots of people. He included training in Muay Thai, BJJ, WC, and lots of other stuff.

    Interesting book but some stuff stuck out. Like that fact that he gives so much credibility to Ninjitsu.
    The fact he mentions CKD doesn't inspire me either!
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