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  1. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:19pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Where is the proof that 'Bone Conditioning' isn't BS?

    Until someone proves otherwise.

    And by "prove" I don't mean "Anecdotal story about a guy punching something hard"

    I don't mean unfounded assertions about thick bones based on alchemy from the year 1000 bc

    I don't mean ads for or arguments over the properties of any stinking lotion that don't have some sort of proven scientific validity

    I don't mean references to something in a language no one reading speaks

    I don't mean solo experimentation uncontrolled for other factors - ie the value of exercise, the conditioning of skin vs bone, the natural starting density of the person's bone, the effects of secondary exercise such as weight lifting, etc.

    I also, before conceding that bone condition is not BS, demand someone show both that it actually occurs, that it actually occurs from the specific training in a given bone conditioning regimen, and that it does so in a manner and amount that somehow adds combat effectiveness.

    Also, while you're at it, it wouldn't HURT to categorize the number of hours it takes to achieve these effects for comparison to other, less BS methods of training.

    Will anyone rise to the challenge of finding or making the science to test the hypothesis, "repeatedly striking surfaces at escalating levels of force eventually produces a change in bone structure useful in a martial arts context" and associated specifics, or will this thread sink like a fucking stone?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  2. Matt Phillips is online now
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have dug up some research on this for other threads in the past. I'll see if I can find it.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  3. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:27pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I assume you mean besides the measurable increase in bone density from weight bearing and fracture healing?
  4. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:30pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I mean the concept of "kicking the tree" or "iron palm" or any of that stuff.

    First I want someone to establish the bone growth from it, then the utility there off, and finally that this is an efficient path to this useful bone growth that exceeds the yields of say, modern nutrition and strength training.

    Another interesting tangent would be, if this training is producing useful growth by fracturing and healing, how much of the training actually does so? IMO the "average" iron palm training or makiwara or whatever isn't fracturing bones, or loading them - if incidental fractures occur from hitting the thing too hard, they are noise from methodological error, not a bonafide effect of the method.

    Also: Another thing that isn't proof is breaking. At least not any break that can be replicated by anyone with some sense and physicality.
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 5/20/2009 12:37pm at .
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  5. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:36pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also of interest to this thread: Secondary practices (diet, celibacy, etc) associated with bone conditioning and IP in particular - which of these practices actually somehow benefit the method vs being signal drowning noise? Vegetarianism and celibacy are two often touted and both of them seem immaterial - vegitarianism seems, in fact, almost totally counter-intuative as I would think protien and calcium would be factors.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  6. leyon is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:38pm


     Style: Basically Bad Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just caught a glimpse of... I think it was Dale Dugan's profile and there is a video of him breaking what seems to be 4" of concrete with an open palm.

    If anyone has a video of that (or any similar concepts to that) being used in sparring I'd be really interested in see that.
    Last edited by leyon; 5/20/2009 12:42pm at . Reason: I was so interested I wrote the line twice!
  7. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Someone posted a study recently (within the past month). It was a peer-reviewed study of judo, karate and something else.
    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates
  8. kenpostudent is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:43pm


     Style: American Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bone conditioning? I don't get it. Are there armies of rocks and boards lurking in the shadows, primed to attack on a moments notice? What is the fucking point, even if it works?
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:43pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just caught a glimpse of... I think it was Dale Dugan's profile and there is a video of him breaking what seems to be 4" of concrete with an open palm.

    If anyone has a video of that (or any similar concepts to that) being used in sparring I'd be really interested in see that.
    That's exactly what he doesn't want.

    *edit*

    Why isn' this in MABS?
  10. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
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    Portrait of a BJJer as a Young Man

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    Posted On:
    5/20/2009 12:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What about regular weight lifting? Hasn't that been shown to increase bone density? Or does that not count?
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