Chinese semantcis derail by Last Samurai

**Last_Samurai** · Posted On: 3/14/2009 10:26pm

Originally Posted by GravyFish

It just seems like Chunners are constantly trying to prove the validity of their art on here by making arguments as to why Wing Chun is effective. That just seems stupid to me, why try so hard to argue for your art when you can just train, get good, and tape yourself beating a boxer or something to prove the point. For how simple that sounds, it just seems like no one has caught on, and it just makes Wing Chun seem even more hollow.

I would put my money where my mouth is, but I'm hardly a good example of a well-trained Wing Chun master :icon_roll but when I think I'm any good, I'll try and make a video. Until then, I'm going to mostly stick to lurking again, and avoid using written arguments to defend Wing Chun.

Something most people don't appreciate about Kung Fu is something you forgot here; "Grand Masters" of the Wing Chun style will actually tell you that in order to use Wing Chun effectivly on the the street to disable a competant fighter, the amount of training you need for this is 7+ years of full time training (6 - 10 hours a day).

Couple that fact with the fact most WC guys only train part time (10 hours a week if lucky) and it is rare to see one doing it with more than 10 years, the actual amount of textbook qualified Wing Chun guys on the street is somewhat 0.0001% (at a guess) of the so called Wing Chun population. I mean, by their own masters recommendations, they all suck...

Couple that with the 6 or so months full time training needed to make a Muay Thai boxer fight ready, you can appreciate why Kung Fu would get such a bad reputation.

I want to see someone who has trained full time for 10+ years in Kung Fu fight, then see if they still suck.

I mean, most you guys bagging out a part time Wing Chun guy, in comparison, is like saying MMA is **** because some guy doing it for just one week still can't fight for ****...

**lionknight** · Posted On: 3/14/2009 11:49pm

Originally Posted by Last_Samurai

Something most people don't appreciate about Kung Fu is something you forgot here; "Grand Masters" of the Wing Chun style will actually tell you that in order to use Wing Chun effectivly on the the street to disable a competant fighter, the amount of training you need for this is 7+ years of full time training (6 - 10 hours a day).

Couple that fact with the fact most WC guys only train part time (10 hours a week if lucky) and it is rare to see one doing it with more than 10 years, the actual amount of textbook qualified Wing Chun guys on the street is somewhat 0.0001% (at a guess) of the so called Wing Chun population. I mean, by their own masters recommendations, they all suck...

Couple that with the 6 or so months full time training needed to make a Muay Thai boxer fight ready, you can appreciate why Kung Fu would get such a bad reputation.

I want to see someone who has trained full time for 10+ years in Kung Fu fight, then see if they still suck.

I mean, most you guys bagging out a part time Wing Chun guy, in comparison, is like saying MMA is **** because some guy doing it for just one week still can't fight for ****...

If this was true then at the very least all those masters of wing chun would be able to fight. They can't so it's just more bullshit; its a scam to keep people training, dangle the carrot if you will.

**mike321** · Posted On: 3/15/2009 12:01am

Originally Posted by Last_Samurai

Something most people don't appreciate about Kung Fu is something you forgot here; "Grand Masters" of the Wing Chun style will actually tell you that in order to use Wing Chun effectivly on the the street to disable a competant fighter, the amount of training you need for this is 7+ years of full time training (6 - 10 hours a day).

Couple that fact with the fact most WC guys only train part time (10 hours a week if lucky) and it is rare to see one doing it with more than 10 years, the actual amount of textbook qualified Wing Chun guys on the street is somewhat 0.0001% (at a guess) of the so called Wing Chun population. I mean, by their own masters recommendations, they all suck...

Couple that with the 6 or so months full time training needed to make a Muay Thai boxer fight ready, you can appreciate why Kung Fu would get such a bad reputation.

I want to see someone who has trained full time for 10+ years in Kung Fu fight, then see if they still suck.

I mean, most you guys bagging out a part time Wing Chun guy, in comparison, is like saying MMA is **** because some guy doing it for just one week still can't fight for ****...

Your argument if true would give me a very bad opinion of the style. Seven years at full time training to be competent is a ridiculous amount of time.

**Last_Samurai** · Posted On: 3/15/2009 5:25am

Originally Posted by mike321

Your argument if true would give me a very bad opinion of the style. Seven years at full time training to be competent is a ridiculous amount of time.

Yes, but Kung Fu is for monks, not fighters. Don't forget that.

Kung Fu is intended to be vast, complex, and full of wisdom. The meaning of the words "Kung Fu" translate to something as "martial talent which takes time to master".

What do you think monks were more interested in, beating the moisture out of the skulls of villans, or embarking on a knowledgable path which has much to offer? It is supposed to be a lifetime quest.

Only dick heads nowadays doing Kung Fu who are not monks are deluded faggots who got caught up in the mysticism of something more ancient and grander than themselves believe it is supposed to be entirly practical and will ultimatly allow their scrawny bodies to obliverate even the most strongest of world champion fighters.

But, the point is, are you going to bag Kung Fu because MMA or Muay Thai or whatever is more efficient at the purpose of body destruction, or are you going to appreciate it for what it is?

What you're saying is like laughing at the weakness of a tiger because you have a rifle. Just because you are the better hunter, it does not mean the tiger does not have virtues of their own.

Of course, if you look at my style it is Muay Thai. I am not a monk. I chose practicality over Kung Fu, but at least I'm not the idiot who does not even know what Kung Fu really is, or was truly intended for.

Originally Posted by lionknight

If this was true then at the very least all those masters of wing chun would be able to fight. They can't so it's just more bullshit; its a scam to keep people training, dangle the carrot if you will.

What are the names of the masters you say cannot fight. Go on, back yourself up.

**Kantroce** · Posted On: 3/15/2009 5:42am

Originally Posted by Last_Samurai

What are the names of the masters you say cannot fight. Go on, back yourself up.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

**Last_Samurai** · Posted On: 3/15/2009 5:52am

Originally Posted by Kantroce

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

So you post a video of an old man getting ambushed from behind?

Your second retardation comes in the fact you're trying to knock Wing Chun, so you've posted a video of a Wing Chun practitioner getting beat up... by another fucking Wing Chun practitioner... so, what does this video prove? Wing Chun works on the street?

Some of my old Muay Thai teachers have done over 400 fights. Doubt it'd be hard for me to sneak up behind, wrestle them down and drop a few on them...

Why don't you try and find a video of a full time trained man in his 20's who has been trained since childhood (as Kung Fu demands) getting into some fights. Until you've seen that, you have absultley no idea what you're talking about, you're clearly just going on rumour or myth.

**Kantroce** · Posted On: 3/15/2009 6:27am

Originally Posted by Last_Samurai

So you post a video of an old man getting ambushed from behind?

Your second retardation comes in the fact you're trying to knock Wing Chun, so you've posted a video of a Wing Chun practitioner getting beat up... by another fucking Wing Chun practitioner... so, what does this video prove? Wing Chun works on the street?

Some of my old Muay Thai teachers have done over 400 fights. Doubt it'd be hard for me to sneak up behind, wrestle them down and drop a few on them...

Why don't you try and find a video of a full time trained man in his 20's who has been trained since childhood (as Kung Fu demands) getting into some fights. Until you've seen that, you have absultley no idea what you're talking about, you're clearly just going on rumour or myth.

I didn't see any attacks from behind. I saw some half assed judo throw and it went to the ground. Considering Wing Chun doesn't have ground fighting it makes it even funnier. You asked for proof of masters that can't fight and you got one, and now you're upset. The video isn't one Wing Chun master beating up another, it's a video of two Wing Chun masters being terrible.

As for your request of a man in his twenties that has trained full time in Kung Fu getting into fights. You've got me there, I have no fucking clue where to find a video like that. You do say that like it would be any different. Honestly, I dunno if it would be different, but then again, I don't think you do either.

Edit* I didn't post that video to knock Wing Chun, as it does a pretty good job by itself. I posted it because you were asking for proof of masters that can't fight.

**lionknight** · Posted On: 3/15/2009 9:06am

Originally Posted by Last_Samurai

What are the names of the masters you say cannot fight. Go on, back yourself up.

William Cheung and Emin Boztepe.

Show me ANY WHERE that these two have proven their fighting ability. I could pull any random wing chun master off of google and have the same result.

Their is not ONE wing chun master that can fight unless they have completely changed their fighting style by cross training in boxing, bjj, muay thai... so on.

Ok, your turn, show me ONE wing chun master who has proven his fighting ability and I will issue a retraction and full apology... I'm waiting...

forever.

---------- Post added at 08:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Victor Parlati

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesperus
"The Chun is real.

If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the best examples of what Chunners wish they could do. "

..........................................

AND THEN BY GRAVYFISH:

"That was pretty perfect. I've forgotten the name of that move, where you use your forearm to deflect a punch, but we've been taught that. His follow-up punch is great. This is what I think Wing Chun should focus on doing. At least, that's what I've been lead to believe the point of Wing Chun is.

Edit: Hell, after watching it a bit more, the footwork he uses to close the gap and set up his right-hand punch even reminds me of Chun footwork I've learned to counter the exact reaction the guy getting punched has. Deflect the blow, step in to set up the punch, and offset your body/head to to avoid retaliation from the opponent's other hand. We just need to use more horizontal punches."

***YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK, Gravyfish. If you incorporate more horizontal punches within your wing chun - it opens up a whole new world, including acting as a setup for the closer range vertical punches and simultaneous two-handed attacks, defenses, and controls.

lol -- so the best example you have of the chun, to back up your "theories" is Rampage Jackson who is about as far from wing chun as you can be? - lmao

**Last_Samurai** · Posted On: 3/15/2009 11:22pm

Originally Posted by Kantroce

I didn't see any attacks from behind. I saw some half assed judo throw and it went to the ground. Considering Wing Chun doesn't have ground fighting it makes it even funnier. You asked for proof of masters that can't fight and you got one, and now you're upset. The video isn't one Wing Chun master beating up another, it's a video of two Wing Chun masters being terrible.

William had turned away because Emin was talking ****, that is when he jumped him. My Kung Fu teacher from back in my teens was there, he saw it.

William Chueng used to openly accept challenges on his head, and he got into many fights, some with bladed weapons and such. Of course, as he aged, he humbled a little. Emin attacked him at a stage in his life when he had given up fighting and turned into a teacher.

The word "Master" can mean many things. I call my Muay Thai teachers "Kru", which translates as "Master". Of course, the title does not mean you fight, just that perhaps you once could and now you know a lot of **** to teach, like William Chueng.

I've got a Muay Thai teacher who is about the same age as William was in that video. He is a Master, has done many fights (hundreds) and knows how it works. I could belt the **** out of him; he is just too old. Go on, tell me if I got a vid of that it'd prove Muay Thai sucks...

As for "what you saw" in that video, you saw a man pull another man to the ground and start punching him. How does that prove Kung Fu sucks?

I could think of another example. Say I was attacked by several armed men, I am big and good at Muay Thai, but that is no match for multple opponents with weapons. Luckily, I find a Samurai sword. I've never done Kendo, but I pick it up anyway. I cut them all to pieces. Of course, all my strikes look like ****. I can't use a fucking sword. Guys on Kendo forums will knock me for **** swordsplay. So what, I got the job done, right?

What you gotta ask, but, is would I still have been able to pick up a sword and use it in a fight were I not trained in Muay Thai? I doubt it.

Jack of what you learn in Muay Thai is directly relevant to the street, but there is an essence you will learn about fighting that will make it a shitload easier. You'll just get better at fighting.

So you're going to knock an old man for getting beaten up, and you're going to knock Emin for **** Judo throws? The old man didn't want to fight, Emin doesn't do Judo. Way to prove Kung Fu sucks... but the point would be, Emin improvised his skills in a situation to do what he wanted to do. It is the same as me if I used a sword; it may not be textbook styles, but when you're fighiting on the street, nothing works how you want it.

Originally Posted by Kantroce

As for your request of a man in his twenties that has trained full time in Kung Fu getting into fights. You've got me there, I have no fucking clue where to find a video like that. You do say that like it would be any different. Honestly, I dunno if it would be different, but then again, I don't think you do either.

So as for my request to find a competant and willing Kung Fu fighter who has been trained to the recommended Kung Fu level (about 7 - 15 years full time), who is actually at an age where you would expect decent skills from, you cannot. Right...

So you'll go on knocking something you've never even seen... based on myth and hear say, Kung Fu officially sucks, right?

You're no better than ****** Wing Chun guys filling up on legends.

Originally Posted by lionknight

William Cheung and Emin Boztepe.

Show me ANY WHERE that these two have proven their fighting ability. I could pull any random wing chun master off of google and have the same result.

Their is not ONE wing chun master that can fight unless they have completely changed their fighting style by cross training in boxing, bjj, muay thai... so on.

Ok, your turn, show me ONE wing chun master who has proven his fighting ability and I will issue a retraction and full apology... I'm waiting...

The point is, you guys havn't seen it either, yet you're willing to pass it up and say it sux because you've seen a bunch of part time wannabes get owned. That is just stupid.

I notice on this site a lot "video or it didn't happen". So that right at you. Kung Fu doesn't suck until you've seen it suck.

**Kantroce** · Posted On: 3/15/2009 11:26pm

YouTube - Jiu jitsu Vs Kung fu

A video of Royce Gracie wrecking a kung fu guy. I'm not sure what you want.

As for making fun of Emin for a shitty Judo throw when he doesn't do judo...why the **** would he even try to throw him to the ground instead of using the kung fu system he's mastered? I mean what the ****?