Tien Tae Jitsu
I have been a lurker on Bullshido for some time now and I like to believe I can see bullshit in the martial arts fairly clearly.
Recently a friend introduced me to his work collegue who claims he practices a "Korean self defence system called Tien Tae Jitsu". He says he has had a few amateur MMA matches around Australia and use TTJ as his primary method of winning. He went on to talk about it being a gentle art (not in the sense of traditional JJJ or BJJ) in the way of kung fu and the like.
I was skeptical and questioned him about it and he replied saying he was an amateur boxer for a few years, and that when a friend introduced him to it at first he was also a skeptic but was quickly convinced of its combat practicability after a single lesson.
After looking on the internet I found the website for Tien Tae Jitsu (http://www.tientaejitsu.com/) and am convinced that it is another Mcdojo deal. Just another BS martial art created to make money, it claims it is a mixure of Kung Fu, TKD and Ninjitsu, using soft flowing techniques to stop an opponent.
I am not looking for an investigation into the guy who claimed all this, as I really don't care what he does in his spare time, rather I would like to know if anyone on the site has had any experiences with the art.
Wow, from the website, it does look like a McDojo.
Apparently, you haven't lurked long enough.
Originally Posted by Metallicker
Mcdojo doesn't always equal bullshit or bullshido. He has Rank in the arts he claims and decided to create his own style. That's not really BS worthy.
Not saying his style is effective just saying, people rename arts all the time do to a falling out, permission form their instructor, etc etc etc. That isn't BS itself unless they start falsifying rank.
In other words you have low rank and suddenly decide to teach.
Otherwise it is a Mcdojo which, isn't necessarily bad.
On average it takes three to five years of training to achieve a black belt in Tien Tae Jitsu - not exactly a McDojo. It's very doubtful a Tien Tae Jitsu student would enter into an MMA match - people who desire to compete would not be happy practicing TTJ. We don't enter tournaments; we focus on self improvement - training to defend ourself or others only when absolutely necessary.
Master Johnson developed the art with the blessing of Master Shores (of Tien Shan P'ai Kung Fu; now deceased), not due to a falling out, but because he had found techniques within other systems to be very effective, and wished to incorporate them into his teachings. Since the art is only avaialble in the Portland metro area, I find it even more unlikely someone was using it in Australian MMA matches...although I guess anything is possible.
[quote=Shoumai;2226507]On average it takes three to five years of training to achieve a black belt in Tien Tae Jitsu - not exactly a McDojo.
Uh - Yes, It is
I'm intrigued by their offer of Emergency Room Self Defense:
Emergency Room Self Defense
ER Self Defense is designed for emergency room personnel. These techniques take into consideration the special environments and limitations an ER location presents. Offered to groups. Please contact us for more information.
I wonder if they focus on physical restraints. Where I live/work we certainly couldn't punch or kick a patient.
Why does the word defense assume punching and kicking? I don't think that would fly anywhere, but basic blocking and avoidance, as well as awareness of the violent individual's state, are effective and generally permissible techniques that can be used for the (hopefully) few minutes it takes the trained crisis response individuals to arrive with their restraints :)
I searched the internet for common agreement on what constitutes a McDojo. The most consistent definitions include:
Originally Posted by Shoumai
1) McDojos are fighting schools "promising fast and furious training". A McDojo is sometimes also referred to as a "belt factory."
2) McDojos are schools that are run and owned for the purpose of making money. Typically you are able to get a black belt in less than 2-3 years, and you are usually guaranteed success on the black belt test. These schools charge outrageous amounts of money, have extensive contracts, and are sometimes cult like.
- TTJ definitely does not offer fast and furious training, and is not trying to produce fighters. "Strike first, strike hard, no mercy!" isn't who we are or want to be. Although teaching punches, blocks, and kicks, we are encouraging development of mind and spirit, and focusing on how martial arts can improve all aspects of our life. Corny as it sounds, we want our students to be better humans - rather than developing the mentality that they are the center of importance.
- Are we a black belt factory?? Apparently if a black belt is achievable in a minimum of 3 years of hard work, we might qualify. However students don't test on a schedule, or after completing a defined number of hours in the class room. They are invited to test (in an individual - not group test, scored by a 4th level black belt or higher) after consistently demonstrating proper form and control of the required techniques. They can fail, although aren't invited to test if that is likely. There are no "stripes" awarded, and once a student moves to the next level they are introduced to entirely new techniques (although the ones learned previously do reappear at future levels in a more difficult form, such as combos, leaping, spinning, or all three).
3) A martial arts school that is run for the purposes of making money without teaching true martial arts. The most common signs of a McDojo include a lack of sparring classes, no opportunities to compete in a tournament, outrageous fees, and a promise on having a black belt in 2-3 years. Earning the black belt in 2-3 years, depending on skill, is quite alright in many systems, as there are always highly talented pupils. However, the promise from first glance is a sure-sign.
- TTJ really misses the boat here! We don't have contracts in any form, and students can attend classes for as little as $40-$50 per month, payable the first class of each month.
- We offer financial assistance to existing students, including reduced fees or free classes during economic hardships. If students don't feel comfortable training "for free" we ask that they assist in other classes (if a greenbelt or above), or complete cleaning chores around the school.
- Colored belt tests are $20, and a black belt test is $25. No charge if they fail. Total testing fees - $180 through black belt.
- We certainly aren't a cult, don't require sworn alliances or secrecy, and for some reason seem to attract families very active in their various churches and community organizations.
I find it disheartening but unsurprising that people are willing to offer opinions, and even pass judgment on the credibility of an art based on the small amount they can glean from a website, without any first hand experience such as seeing a demonstration, meeting an instructor or student, or observing a class.
- I completely disagree that lack of regular sparring and tournaments means you are not learning effective martial arts. Not everyone wants contact; not everyone wants to try to beat the *&%$& out of someone else. Being able to score a point in a tournament has no bearing on your ability to defend yourself during a side-walk attack. TTJ uses equipment like highgear, throwing and hanging dummies, etc to go full-force with, and various drills including reflex training administered by instructors to develop blocking and avoidance techniques. Controlled sparring only between instructors and students occurs at various belt levels throughout the system to ensure students are learning blocking, avoidance, etc, but is not an emphasis in our art. Brown belts must spar with a black belt (who do work on sparring exercises) in order to earn their promotion.
- No one is guaranteed they will achieve a black belt in any pre-determined or guaranteed timeframe. We lose a lot of students who, unwilling to practice outside the classroom, drop out because they are not advancing.
We are always happy to have visitors!
Shoumai, here's what jumped out at me on the website.
Offering a combat training system for law enforcement professionals, despite a primary focus on "encouraging development of mind and spirit, and focusing on how martial arts can improve all aspects of our life."
Classes for emergency rooms and airline self-defense; do your instructors have any qualifications to be teaching these kinds of classes? There's absolutely nothing wrong with a focus on respect or fitness or relaxing, but teaching classes to people who actually need to know self-defense is at odds with that.
"A student with previous experience in martial arts should never compare techniques or styles of disciplines unless the instructor asks the student for their opinion. To do otherwise is rude and disrespectful. For example: A statement like “this is the way we do this technique” suggests the student is questioning the instructor’s methods. The statement of “we do things this way” suggests the student’s allegiance and / or loyalty is with their previous school. One must empty a cup before it can be filled! This is not to say the student should forget what they’ve learned; this is to say, don’t challenge the instructor openly during class."
There's a difference between respect and the instructor is always right. You should encourage questioning and students wanting to learn other arts. Given that you say Tien Tae Jitsu is a combination of other arts, why should students not incorporate other techniques?
Don't we have midazolam for this kinda thing?
Originally Posted by rootbeer