Double collar tie is not the only clinch there is in MT. In fact we recently discussed that it isn't particularly common unless your opponent sucks at defending it. No one trains to only use a double collar tie. In Plumm practice you switch grips constantly. Obviously it would be stupid to say that MT is the better throwing art but the clinch focus is not as narrow as a lot of people think.
I believe the set up for the throws and the ability to transition from striking to clinch grappling is exactly what widens the gap. Not shitting on MT. as I stated I love the art but in relation to MMA sanshou offers and counters a lot more factors.
As MMA grows in popularity in china, and more Sanda fighters transition to it, we will see how it works out. Until then it's all speculation.
so we have to wait for chinese to start transitioning before we can argue it? I mean Cung le made a fantastic transition albeit a little late but was pretty successful. not being a cung groupiejust stating that as he may not be the only one he is the most popular. Truth be told if we wait for the Chinese it will only further prove the pro sanshou/sanda argument. Right now there is some little kid being forcefed HGH and chinese wheatties right before practice.
After watching this video I think San shou seems to be better suited to MMA competitive fighting. (I didn't know what it was so I looked it up)
In saying that though, as someone who trains in MT, I think the knees and elbows are good tools and one should train to use them also.
Lyoto Machida also transitioned from karate. You can't say the system works in MMA until more than the odd one or two can get away with using it.
Originally Posted by robdaze151
That being said, in my experience sanshou is very useful for MMA; it's the training methods which often let it down.
Cung Le is the most popular Sanshou fighter in MMA, but there are many more, and not from China either, although many of them are still in the smaller organizations.
Check out Bazigit Atajev (trained in same Russian sanda school as my coach), Pierre Moua (France), Team Lakay (Philippines). Alex Cisne (USA) competes in Sanshou.
These guys have all competed in the World Wushu Championships (which Cung Le won Bronze twice). I made a compilation video from some of the footage I took of the most recent one, in which some of these guys participated:
I think this kind of style is very applicable to MMA. Why you don't see it as often has less to do with the style, but more to do with the popularity of the art.
In general, Muay Thai culture is better established. It's been around longer, there is a larger talent pool, and it has many more practitioners who are willing to put in the hard work. There are more authentic instructors around the world with real fight experience.
While Sanshou (especially in the West) is still very young, and there are a lot of people teaching it who come from traditional kung fu backgrounds but don't have any true full contact fighting experience.
Some people start out in Sanshou, but move on to Muay Thai or K-1 style kickboxing because of the lack of career opportunities available (Pat Barry for example). It's also a lot easier to get fights in Kickboxing or Muay Thai than Sanshou, so a lot of Sanshou fighters cross-compete or switch over completely.
But I've been to the World Championships, and trust me, there are some very young elite athletes with arguably better sanshou skills than Cung. If I had the resources, I'd find ways to get these guys to build up their professional careers and enter MMA.
Both styles are great, and everyone should just train at the gym they enjoy the most, and learn the most from.
Muay Thai harder training sanda is also very good at clinch takedowns.
San Shou does not have knees or elbows; ring SanDa allows knees, and has a version that allows elbows if pads are worn.
Someday someone will figure out that a certain popular round kick catch in Sanda feeds beautifully into a heel hook, and it will be a minor game changer (IMO)
sanda dose use elbows and knees as well i belivie it can be more practical for the street than muay thai and also better in the cage because of the takes downs as well. no offense to muay thai