It looks as though Malcolm's publishing company Authentic Media (the irony) has published another, er, interesting book; Breakout by Mark Stibbe and Andrew-Williams
Breakout: Amazon.co.uk: Mark Stibbe and Andrew Williams: Books
I am not a Christian and am a bit out of my depth with this account of "The Delusional World Of Mark Stibbe & St Andrews Chorleywood" which is by a Christian who seems to be a homophobe with an axe to grind, but if one of the Christians here, with some time on their hands (sorry something I don't have right now) could do some googling it looks kind of interesting as there are accusations of organised crime, child abuse and various other things flying around.
Comment: Breakout Book
I read the criticism and do understand it. There's been some crazy stuff around in the Christian Church, with some dubious characters drawing large crowds for a time and then things fall apart. The Church in Chorley Wood may have gone over the top on some things but it's been a pretty stable Church. The guy criticizing everything is a bit over the top the other way - throwing out the baby, bath and bathwater. It's not that wierd for a publisher to publish a history of a growing Anglican Church. Some of the wierder stuff in the criticism can't be placed at the doorstep of Chorley Wood Anglican Church. It's all a bit in house - and there's no record that TA goes for that sort of stuff that I know of. Very confusing for outsiders to the Church.
There's been some comments on this thread that it's less about TA and more about the gullibility of the audience. Little 'ol Me's find does highlight gullibility on behalf of the Church. I don't think it shoots down Authentic Media tho. Malcolm seems to have signed TA in good faith - as the weight of evidence builds it would be appropriate to see an Authentic investigation by Malcolm.
Thank you Concern
I did get the impression that the author of the blog I linked to was a bit "eccentric" and I struggled to understand what he was saying.
I also struggle to take blatant bigots and homophobes (as the author clearly is) seriously.
I did find another link which is a bit less ranty, although he also probably has his own agenda (who doesn't?)
From the above link it would seem that Rev Mark Stibbe of the Chorley Wood Anglican Church has published various extraordinary statements in support of the notorious evangelist and convicted child abuser Todd Bentley and was selling Bentley's CDs and DVDs at his church.
videos about Todd Bentley
YouTube- Todd Bentley exposed on Nightline Part 1
YouTube- Todd Bentley exposed on Nightline - Part 2
I am still struggling to understand this but what interests me is that it seems that people with extremely serious criminal convictions - whether for child molestation or for organised crime - are able to convince some Christians that they are special, genuine men of God, simply by developing a charismatic preaching style and having a talent for being able to excite large groups of people.
It seems to me that there is a very lucrative industry in this kind of thing.
Now, just for the sake of clarification, I really do not have a problem at all with the idea that people can turn their loves around and change.
I am as capable of being inspired as the next person when someone changes from a life of selfishness and crime to a life of community service and helping others.
I just find myself feeling quite disturbed by the seriousness of the crimes of Tony Anthony and his associates and of Todd Bentley, and by the way in which some people's faith and their need to believe in personal / spiritual transformation can be manipulated into a money making racket - which is how this looks to me.
I am a bit out of my depth here as I am not a Christian, but from my perspective this does not look good. In any way at all.
As for Malcolm Down I have a lot of concerns regarding his business.
Earlier on in the thread there was a quote from a communication by Malcolm where he claimed that Tony did not make any money from sales of Taming the Tiger as he had donated revenue his royalties to cover the costs of printing more copies of TTT so that they could be given away free to those who could not afford them.
I am wondering how much money Malcolm Down makes from sales of Taming the Tiger? Does he put all of his revenue back into the pot also?
I am interested to know how many copies of TTT have been donated since the first printing. I am also interested to know whether Angela Little also refused to accept payment or a royalty from the book and effectively worked for free on TTT.
Just a few thoughts
Reply to Little 'Ol Me
Hi - I'll be brief as this is a Martial Arts forum etc...
Some Christians can be very gullible - and the Todd Bentley episode highlighted it. Crowd hype more than genuine spiritual life. Guys with a bad past being changed is good - but when there's little time or proof of character development it is an opportunity for people on the make.
Scientology is a religion that came from someone who wrote Science fiction books and saw them as 'revelation' and used them as the basis for a new religion. He made a lot of money too. Scientology takes people to Court for saying anything detrimental but I think I've given a reasonable explanation of how it started.
A lot of this is about the human audience - in religion, politics, prejudice - any group dynamics can go crazy.
There is a book 'Run Baby Run', a best seller for I think fifty years now, by Nicki Cruz that tells a genuine 'violence to joy' story. All the characters have been checked out etc. This was probably the first of such a mega selling story. It's sister book telling the same story is 'Cross and the Switchblade' by David Wilkerson. Well worth reading and checking out. Nicki Cruz was a young Puerto Rican and years later it was revealed he made virtually no money from what has been probably the foremost Christian Best Seller besides the Bible - the publishers sold the rights on and he got 'forgotten' - and didn't make a fuss so as not to bring reproach on Church people. Very instructive as a picture of what goes on behind the scences - and what a genuine story reads like. Check it out and form your own opinion...
I feel I need to point out that the article by James Jacob Prasch is criticizing the sexual molestation of children (male AND female) by supposed religous people within the Church.
Originally Posted by littleoldme
Your accusation of 'homophobia' seems "off" at the very least.
except that he wrote this:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Boy
...the UK has only witnessed steadily increasing moral and spiritual decline including a Church of England headed by a member of a Druid sect and favoring same sex marriages and the lesbian and homosexual ordination urged by Desmond Tutu.
Which seems rather bigoted and homophobic to me.
He also wrote this
Meanwhile, the Kansas City False Prophets hyped and promulgated by St. Andrew’s Chorleywood to no end have publicly fallen from grace. Bob Jones was debunked as a sexual predator with vulnerable women while Paul Cain was publicly disclosed to be a drunken pervert with a life long history of alcoholism and homosexuality.
Which is also homophobic. Obviously.
Then he also wrote this (emphasis mine)
These are the deranged antics of Lakeland we are speaking of and these are the kinds of people we are talking about; an assortment of perverts, swindlers, drunks, homosexuals, demonstrable false prophets, and even a tattooed criminally convicted pedophile child molester turned adulterer filing separation procedures against his wife. This is the whacky world of Mark Stibbe.
I think that I must have a different definition of homophobia than you.
edited to add another example here
It is also noteworthy, how much of this sexual immorality has been of a perverse, un-natural, pedophile, or homosexual nature.
It is exactly this lumping together of homosexuality and paedophilia, as though they were in some way equivalent, that I have a problem with. If he is talking about child molestation then there is not need to use the word "homosexual" at all.
At no point does he mention "heterosexual" paedophiles and yet he rants on about homosexuals. Why does he do this if he is not a bigot?
The molestation of a child is a terrible thing, regardless of the gender of the child. The gender of the child is not significant, what is significant is that fact that a child has been abused. Obviously
Originally Posted by littleoldme
Originally the term was used to describe animals that were afraid of humans.
'Homo' meaning Man, the species, and 'phobia' as in irrational fear.
Wilhelm Reich has also used the term to refer to women who were lesbian or "sexually" fearful of men.
(Why can't people respect the original meaning of words!)
It could also be translated as "fear of the same" from the Greek use of 'homo' but I have never heard of any texts in the English language to do so.
Can we get back to Tony Anthony please?
we all want to know if the story is true. i propose to hire a private detective. all of us who wants could donate some money. i am afraid this is the only way to do it. Concern and Mr.P should take the initiative on this matter.
Hi Daniel, Welcome to the thread.
Im still working on this, there are a few items of information that have been obtained that I am in the process of verifying/confirming.
Should I be successful it will open the door to the first 17 years of the story with named witnesses to those years.
Ill post when I have more.