Vid pls kkthxbye
Vid pls kkthxbye
Hi Hidden Ronin,
I am not sure that Yellow Bamboo are the same BUT all the
other styles are DIRECTLY from Kateda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kateda tells you a little bit
more about the Kateda group and its offshoots.
They were featured on BBC's 'Watchdog' a consumer rights
show over here in the UK. Hence the many names for the
OK, so thhier tuesday club has been shut down, meaning Ill have to go on a wednesday. This means missing out of 3 hours of Jujutsu/Randori training. Sorry about the long wait, ill get down to see em as soon as I can.
A long time ago before the scandal, I was persuaded to dabble in this by a fellow History student. Hmm. We were supposed to be developing critical faculties so I was curious at his Brown Belt status and I had a look.
Well, in retrospect it was Hard Qigong styled and I did see some extraordinary things. Punching the Iron Plate was amazing to watch especially as it bounced from the floor by the impact of the strike. This was reserved for the Black Belts and many had callouses and/or calcification of the knuckles.
There were 20 quasi-Karate defence moves and the rest was, whisper it carefully, "Internal Power". This increasing 'power' was tested by punching Iron Plate; taking Strangulation; More and it looked very severe. How did you train this Internal Power? By meditating whilst performing abdominal contraction etc. This seems to be Nei Gong but I claim no knowledge.
Lionel Nasution was the Grandmaster and wore a White (Knight) Gi. It was him I recall pummelling the Iron Plate. It was like watching a frenetic drum solo (John Bonham/Keith Moon). It was not fake. Other seniors could do similar. He seemed to go into Trance. I saw even more in this vein which was truly amazing. It seemed inexplicable. It didn't seem like hucksterism and perhaps James Randi might have been puzzled. Anyway, he could also strike fear into the senior grades by a look. (BTW, I am now aware of the Shaolin practice of striking the wall through paper to encourage micro-fractures of the bone so promoting healing and increasing bone density i.e. calcification. Of course, once started it must be maintained or the bone density returns to normal and you strike something hard and break your hand. Ha!)
I was told the guff about Tagashi, Tibet, Secret knowledge but with the twist that Lionel had killed Tagashi when testing his Central Power in a strike to the Abdomen. Perhaps, Tagashi didn't know of the Chinese dictum of always keeping back 1 secret from your students (like a means of escape). I also heard Jimmy Tabawossname who had gone his own way and is clearly the same bloke in SINDO. As for the KATEDA book, released to me on licence for £5, it's in appalling English and unusable. He later produced his magnum opus "The White Book" for £20 but I never had the money and would had to return my original book.
There were a lot ex-pat Iranians doing it. They liked to claim it as Iranian to those who would listen but to their credit, it was said tongue-in-cheek. Grade jumping was possible in Grand Training, which was supposed to be conducted silently ("Deep Silence"). Anyone reaching Black Belt had to open a school and had to be overseen by a Master.
Anyway, it didn't agree with me so I gave it up. The scandal of Lionel/Women/VAT etc came much later. Kixa/SINDO/NEARU are all branches of the same tree of KATEDA.
a Few years ago at a franchise fitness gym, I had a few tries at Kickboxing and in conversation about MA, the instructor told me that he'd also got into KATEDA but fell out and left. He had got to Black Belt and had punched the Iron Plate etc. He also told me that there were a lot of dubious practises and he reckoned he could beat 'em all. I believed him, he was a very good Kickboxer and though polite and considerate of others, would accept challenges. He also said that Lionel had been followed to Indonesia by senior grades who still believed in him; it did not end well.
Caveat Emptor ("Buyer Beware").
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...... so listen, you advocate this stuff is it? Eddie 'Hardon'?
Interestingly, i have also seen kixa people hit things. they whip out their punches making a most impressive 'THWACK' sound before retracting the punch equally fast, without any follow through, in order not to damage their poor handies, or the willing co-demonstrator, wall/floor etc.
all joking aside, its pure smoke & mirrors... for blind people...
My wife is from Indonesia, so when I read this thread I called and asked her about it. She said "Those people are crazy." That did it for me as she never really says any thing abd about any one.
She asked me once if I would go with her to Indonesia to visit friends and family. This was not long after one of the many church bombings they had one X-mas. I thought on it a moment, because I love my wife. Then replyed in a calm voice "Honey, I am a white, christian, American. I am everything they hate rolled in to one package. So I think I will not go." She laughed because she thought I was makeing a joke. So I suggest that if you are NOT from Indonesia to avoid some of the back wodds spots ;)
No, I don't advocate it. I just tried to add to what had gone before. Apparently the "gradings" were even more bizarre before I dabbled at it and the (UK) Martial Arts Commission (deceased) were said to have been mystified by the severtity of the gradings and could not accept them into the MAC fold until they were toned down. This is hearsay.Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkmonkey
I do recall seeing Lionel in what can only be described as an "Altered State" probably straight forward Trance and he seemed to tear in half an Iron Plate (18ins x 9ins and at least 1/4in thick). Later I had a look and it didn't seem as though it had been interferred with or "treated" but I remained sceptical. We were told it was the 20th Anniversay of Lionel meeting Tagashi (Lionel was 13 years at the time of the meeting) blah, blah., blah. Of course, if you are going to induct people it is always handy to do it at night as it tends to bind the group and to have a log fire amplifies the effect. Yep, that's what happened - similar to the French Foreign Legion really (no disrespect by the way, just making a comparison on creating an atmosphere to bring people together).
I also witnessed senior gradings, essentially self-conducted, in which the individual took full power punches to the abdomen, kidney, short rib area simultaneously. I think there were between 5 and 7 punchers. There was no swift withdrawal of minimal contact. So, how did he take it? I dunno, maybe it was all that abdominal breathing allied to 1000s of sit-ups.
"Smoke and Mirrors"? Of course there was yet some things seemed inexplicable until the wider knowledge of Iron Shirt Qi Gong via the Shaolin Temple UK and others.
By chance some couple of years ago, there was a demo in the local swimmng baths as I was about to do some gym work. I was invited in and mentioned some of the names of those I'd known many years before. That got their attention. After watching I went to my gym class and went home.
I have played on the internet and read the SINDO forum and the determined attempted to divorce it from Kateda, which made me laugh because it is quite clearly the same. KIXA likewise but with the Unique Selling Point that it's by and for women. Yeah, well, the odds are that the attacker will likely be a bloke so that's really what they should train for and with; but that's another line of thought. Again, I'm not trying to seem a smart arse or make a political point.
Anyway, yes, I woud suggest the potential student do some other MA. Preferably one in which controlled contact is made and in a Learning atmosphere. Then you have only the problem of trying to find a good Teacher. (Laughs) And that is really hard to find especially if you have little or no knowledge of MA. This is where Bullshido can provide a valuable service or you rely on word of mouth from a friend. Otherwise, you risk learning from Charlatans (even so, you're always wiser after you've been Once Bitten).:toothy10:
"It is said that the next Grandmaster will be chosen from the Eighth Graders" - http://www.answers.com/topic/kateda
That says it all.
Yeah, it's all the same. Interesting update on the SINDO website re British Base (where??) yet no listing of clubs? A puzzle. Still, Jimmy learned under Lionel and at a time when the practice of establishing Degree Grade was "brutal". Striking wtih an Iron Bar and more etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by FictionPimp
All that aside, the thing to be aware of is that all gradings were video-taped. Admittedly, this was at a time when a portable Olympus video suite included a suitcase Battery Pack and similiar Recorder. So, where are the tapes? Not that I care, it was a long time ago....Wonder what the students now think?
Anyway, I still aspire to improve my Groundfighting, Stand-Up and more. I never give KATEDA a thought and perhaps nor should the reader.
Every good wish:notworthy
So did Hidden Ronin ever go?