From what I've gathered Tanemura was Hatsumi's primary training partner while he was attempting to learn and apply what Takamatsu was teaching him for the majority of the 15 years that Hatsumi studied with Takatamtsu. The two of them slowly expanded the circle of individuals involved in the training forming the original core of what became the Bujinkan.
Originally Posted by reptileddp
In the same sense that all involved within the Bujinkan are considered ultimately Hatsumi's student, regardless of the Shihan and Shidoshi they train with so too were all of these original core members seen as students of Takamatsu. For better or worse most of this came via correspondence and via Hatsumi's transmission of what he was learning.
I really think you should get a better understanding of just what something like Hamon within a martial tradition means for both parties involved. It might clear things up considerably.
like i said in another post, there are alot of questions w/ Tanemura, if you watch the panther productions videos he flat out lies about how he learned martial arts.
I'm sure you have other reasons as well.
there are too many questions with him...that's why i train bujinkan.
No one familiar with the material feels that Hatsumi made this material up. Where there are questions is just how far and in what form the material for Togakure Ryu, an admittedly small ryu all things considered, extends back historically.
and i like the post asking WHY takamatsu and hatsumi would make this up.
Because he find it to have valuable material to it and while aware of the historical verification issues related to it feels enough confidence in Takamatsu as a teacher to not doubt his word.
secondly, with the claim to Togakure ryu...why would tanemura except it and teach it?
Which, come to think of it, also applies to Hatsumi.
Kacem Zoughari found some references within historic material that Takamatsu would not have had access to that provides some outside proof of the existence of figures within the Togakure Ryu lineage. It might be worth talking to him about it as well as some of the other issues related to Togakure Ryu's recognition status as among Japanese Martial Arts historians. He's a really interesting character and well worth talking and training with.
somebody else posted a few posts before this (i should have quoted it) that someone else claims to know Togakure ryu and learned it from someone else other than hatsumi.....
so the bujinkan is not the only org. that recognizes togakure ryu, plus what about reaserch into togakure daisuke...isnt there some history on his life outside of martail arts...but actual history, that would be really good supporting fact for this.
A bit more detail on elements of the split have come out over the years but the main crux was simply a disagreement of how things were being taught.
after reading Tanemura's article on here....from what i have learned in the bujinkan, (part of it) Tanemura split becuase he either disagreed w/ hatsumi /did not understand what he was teaching.
They both hold that technical skill and knowledge is a requirement to truly capture the essence of the Arts. You'll find similar sentiment among teachers within the Bujinkan though there is not as much emphasis across the entire organization.
it seems to be similar to Manaka's way of teaching...sticking only to the techniques...