You left out the name Bob Duggan in the early hwrang do USA people
Anyway the only reason I posted is to share My view on Hom-Do.I am curious As to you, how do you define hardcore?I define it as realistic training,Getting hit hard during the classes,street or ring effective tech.Which Patire Hom-do clases provide, Do you train?
As far as the Patires background I know for a fact that he is/was nj state certified by the police training commision.And has taught Federal law enforcement F.B.I. D.E.A. A.T.F. I was there Training them too.I saw it fist hand take care ..Bill
I did not mention Duggan as I donít think he was part of the group with Michael Eachanis who came up with the official history of Hop Ki Do sorry I mean Hwa rang do
for marketing to the government. The knights of Sulsa that is a1st grade rip off of Ninja's . historically it has been tracked the the Hwa rang class had no martial practice.
As to me I have dabbled in the arts up until about 3 years ago when my wifeís illness and injury cut into my time. I have practiced, competed in or taught Judo for 25 years, received a blue belt from the Machados in the early 90ís, trained in Goju for 6 years in the 80ís, Bando for 4 , Thai Boxing for 2 and believe it or not Hwa Rang do with one of the creators of the tall tale for 2.
I believe that Tom may have trained Police officers, people who have been or are seals etc but so have I and I suck. He may have gotten certification by a federal agency but so has Jerry Peterson and he is a fraud.
His history matters because he sells himself as an expert witness and his expertise is based on fiction
Edited by - me on August 22 2002 16:00:44
In my opion he is an expert in use of force,He knows more about it than u or I.His background in bodyguard work is an example,he knows what tech. are legal and things like use of force.You seem to be an educated person, with an open mind to different systems. I would still like to know how you define "hardcore"
is tom a fraud or just guilty of exagerating his martial arts background just like 99% of instructors do...
he's probably a DT instructor who modified the PPCT manual and created his own "system" for body guards and jane Q public flight attendant
marty farty, have u seen (ppct) pressure point control tactics? cdt is light years ahead of that stuff.
me? where and when did u train or watch Hom-do classes?
I have met Tom on 3 times probably about 10 years ago. I first saw him at some DePasquale thing and was not impressed. A friend later got into it and asked me to come with him a couple classes I think they were somewhere off 46 or 3 I lived on the Island at the time and am not that familiar with Jersey.
I view hardcore as training as if actually getting ready for a fight with contact against fully resisting opponents what I saw was nowhere near that
What qualifies someone as an expert in force continuums?
Bill the issue is that Tom Patire bases his entire career on a complete fabrication that he calls Hom-do.
You seem to be knowledgeable about Hom-do do you train in it if so maybe you can answer several questions that have been posed by myself and others.
I had asked:
1. I would like to know how we could contact R.S. Stantin and Sam Kayes about the history of Homdo and their lineage for verification that the art exists. I would also like to get a timeline of when they were in the Philippines as I know people in both Cebu and Korea and there is no history in either country of the art.
2. I have read much material written by yourself and would like to try to get a timeline of your early martial arts career. Who did you train Aikido under, what was his rank and his lineage and your final rank. When did you train Homdo in the Philippines itself and when and where in the US (what years) as in the histories I have read previously your martial arts timeline and your educational resume have a number of discrepancies i.e. in high school at the same time as training in overseas.
3. Are there any Homdo instructors trained by your teachers who were not your direct students and how might they be contacted
An Attorney asked the following
Being a member of the legal profession, I would simply like to (1) know who I can contact to verify these claims (i.e. Newark FBI headquarters or more local branches); (2) what Court and on what dates did Mr. Patire testify as to his background, so I may order the court transcripts myself and (3) what federal authority provided CDT approval to instruct employees CDT and then government personnel and flight attendants, etc., etc.
My questions are fairly easy ones compared to the ones that could be asked. If you are a student I am sure you would know most of the answers maybe you could help
Edited by - me on August 22 2002 23:24:06
Mike(me),I am not a spokesperson for Tom,I will speak about Hom-Do Which In ,my opinion is a very hardcore style,I agree with you that training in hom-do is self defense in nature,its not full contact fighting.I do not agree with someone saying that a person needs only to train in full contact sparring to learn self defense. If you did not SEE fully resisting opponents in his class,that explains it-you need to feel it.Its very easy to watch a martial arts class and say THAT WOULDN'T WORK ON ME. I don't know all the history on the style -I don't care.I do know that the style is effective.,and that Tom is a great teacher. Lets meet I would be happy to demostrate
how well the tech. work.(this is not a challange)
The little Hom-do I know I'm sure would leave an impression,let me know Dude ..Bill