I apologize for necro-ing a thread no one here cares about, but me and a handfull of BL fan boys. I expect ill get some **** for it. Yes I read all the threads I could find on JKD, and Jun Fan, and didnt see the info I am about to post. My goal is to add something to this conversation, by identifying lineages, and how they differ from another.
_ung Fu: The body mechanics, and attributes developed through consistent purposeful martial training.
Quote by Luis Berard orginaly posted by Stinkfist.
like Louis is said, the WNG trains the Chinatown curriculum primarily. The Chinatown JKD school was the last school BL opened, Dan inosanto taught most of the classes, initialy they trained a lot of trapping, but later moved towards a kickboxing emphasis.Quote:
my name is Louis Berard.....Bob was the guy that sparred challengers when they came to the china town school, in fact, his nick name was the ‘ ass kicker of china town.” Additionally, Bob spent much extra time training (verified by Linda Lee) at Bruce’s house. Because of Bob the Wednesday Nite Group really streamlined our basic curriculum to the streamlined tools that Bob brought to the group. We still knew and trained other things, but our foundation more solidly became china town. Not out of dogma, but simply because they followed scientific principles of directness and simplicity, and because they worked!
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...SeFwCYQTQbp.99
Bob Bremer was also part of a BL's private backyard group with Jerry Poteet, Daniel Lee, Pete Jacobs, and Steve Golden. This group did not follow the Chinatown curriculum and were trained by Bruce. Notice that Ted Wong is not listed, though his time with Bruce was concurrent, his training was different.
The JKD coming from BL's backyard group is not from Seattle, or the Oakland era, because the backyard group was started when he moved to L.A. Im not sure exactly who the liars, Louis is referring to are. I do know Bob confirms that the 4 others listed above were part of his group.Quote:
The problem as I see it is that the nucleus contains instructors from all of Bruce’s eras. This is fine except that people ( not Bruce’s original students) take Seattle, or Oakland era stuff and call it JKD. This stuff although may be very good in some respects is not JKD.
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...SeFwCYQTQbp.99
JKD Concepts: Is widely known so I wont elaborate too much. Dan and Bruce had different goals in martial arts, Dan was never trying to create a fighting system, he was teaching, researching and training.
Bruce did these things too, but also intended to create his own martial art. He may have abandoned this goal later, but the way he trained others amounts to teaching a martial art, wether he intended to or not. Dan now calls the material that Bruce used himself Jun Fan Gung Fu. This is confusing because, Jun Fan Gung Fu was the name Bruce gave to his modified wing chun in Seattle, but this system uses a different stance, footwork etc... compared to the Jun Fan that Dan teaches.
OJKD: Is the system taught in Ted Wong's lineage, but also an umbrella term for anything resembling what BL did. Ted Wong was BL's main sparring partner, they have little to no trapping, but also no clinch or groundwork. Kind of Hit and run fight strategy. They use footwork not found in the other lineages like the backwards pendulum, and step and slide, likely due to the fact they are not in fighters generally.
Chinatown JKD: This is the JKD of the Wednesday Night Group which luis berard belongs to, there also referred to as OJKD. Tim Tacket started this group, after learning JKD/Jun Fan from Inosanto. By their own admission, they discarded techniques, and modified their mechanics, once Bob Bremer joined their group. Interestingly enough, they credit Bremer's tweaks for making their trapping functional (for whatever thats worth).
This group spars, and claims to compete, though I can not find evidence of competing. They do train fighters who supplement their base with JKD. They use JKD trapping (which can barely be called trapping in the traditional sense), fencing footwork, and strong side forward boxing with vertical and horizontal punches
I freely admit I am biased towards Poteet's lineage, its the one I know the most about.
Jerry Poteet's lineage: Of the 3 primary 1st generation lineages, this is the least known, and has the fewest full instructors, because Jerry started teaching publicly relatively recently compared to the others, and because they have a more intensive curriculum. As stated above, Jerry was on of Bruce's backyard students, with Bob.
We spar (depending on instructor) and use trapping, fencing footwork, and vertical lead boxing.
JKD modified Fencing Footwork: not too different from MMA footwork, we focus on not changing levels when stepping, and pushing of trailing foot, so its a glide not a step, one foot is always on the ground, rear heel up, front foot flat, and LIGHT.
JKD modified Wing Chun: The hip structure (tucked in pelvis) is retained. Several other concepts including Centerline, and elbow position, straight blasts etc... Trapping is heavily emphasized, but I doubt anyone trained in Wing Chun would recognize what we do as trapping. We train trapping with drills that look more traditional, but the application looks more like a small segment of the drill. I get the feeling that many of the trapping arguments on this forum fail because no one is sure what the other is referring to, and their only frame of referrence is Wing Chun.
JKD Modified Boxing: Vertical punches are emphasized in order to land with the entire fist, not the last three knuckles. We aim with the bottom three, but the whole fist lands, like BKB's would. Dominant hand is in the front, which entails a whole set of strategy different from non-dominant leads. Hooks, are closer to the body and blend wing chun and boxing mechanics.
To reference a post from a different thread about JKD in MMA, yes, punching and kicking will work in MMA. The real question most JKD guys are asking, is can I use JKD as a base in MMA. My answer to that, is not without learning to wrestle, for reasons already stated ad nauseum. Trapping, traditional or not will not work without a grappling base, in a rule set allowing for grappling, and without the trapping, hand range interceptions will rely on bobbing and weaving, which nuliffies most theoretical JKD advantages.
There have been few to no examples of OJKD guys fighting because, A. it attracts nerds that dont fight, B. They usualy dont train hard, or condition themselves. C. Many instructors will kick you out for cross training (sad and true), you will also be kicked out for posting videos. D. Without trapping, its pretty much kickboxing with dominant hand lead, and very few people teach functional trapping. E. The rules will make it look more like MMA than JKD.
The philosophy vs new martial art debate is moot, because even though BL said he didnt create a new martial art, he did synthesize a delivery system for himself, and he taught it to others so they could use it. A set of principles and concepts known as JKD exists independently from the delivery system, but the delivery system, its strategies, and techniques also exists.
I am an apprentice instructor, and have been training for 4 years. I am on hiatus from training now because my son was just born, but will be starting MMA in a month, I know JKD works in MMA, because Jab, Cross, Kick works. I will try and get some videos of the trapping in sparring once I do, but I doubt its anything new to anyone.