Muay Thai, though it does have some techniques that are applicable to takedown defense, doesn't really promote the concept enough for it to be practiced with any type of regularity. I've trained with a pretty good deal of Muay Thai stylists and I haven't met any (who weren't also training in MMA) that had decent takedown defense. And I'm talkin about going against shitty Sanda "double legs" -- not even a legit wrestlers shot.
I don't thnk its a strange concept to be 'combat ready' and not incorporate kicks. Most people can't kick to save their life. Honestly, most people would **** themselves over trying to throw a kick in a fight if they didn't have a good amount of training. Furthermore (especially in environments where gloves are small or nonexistent) its not too hard to power through kicks to land heavy punches until someone just doesnt feel like kicking anymore.
Takedowns are a more legitimate threat. My only response to that would be that between the footwork and frequent level changes you find in 52, it would be hard for someone without a wrestling background to get under the guy's base to take him down.
This is obviously speculation, though. I haven't trained with any 52 practitioners yet, so I might just be projecting my own grappling know-how on them, and assuming that they would do this or that. I will say that they certainly have the potential for it, if nothing else.
As for how it holds up against boxing and Muay Thai, it would depend on the context. In the ring, it holds up okay against boxing. One of their guys won a few fights in the Atlanta Golden Gloves, so clearly it can't be too bad. Against Muay Thai, it would get killed by the leg kicks and knees. The level changing would be counter productive.
Bare-knuckle, I think that it would do better against both because of the emphasis on limb-destruction. Blocking punches with the elbows is one of the things they practice most, and against a hard-punching boxer, one successful instance of that would change the fight big-time. Against a Muay Thai practitioner, I'd still say the 52 guy would be at a disadvantage.
BUT, I bet that someone well-versed in 52 would handle a flurry of oncoming bare-knuckle punches far better than a Muay Thai practitioner. For all of the strengths that Muay Thai has, defense against punches isn't really one of them.
Again, speculation based on observation. I could be wrong.
I am going to say elements of. You see it especially in MMA. And here is where I get weird with my half formed idea.
I was watching here comes the boom. And one of the things I noticed was during the warm up for the big fight. Kevin james was doing pad work hand trapping drills.
Now I have noticed occasions where people incorporate a lot of ideas from other styles. vertical fists are becoming more common. Hand trapping. I was recently taught away to attack the turtle which was a capoeira pasade. (cant spell that)
I learned gunting from a muay thai guy.
I apply akido locks using catch wrestling at work.
So it is all the same big mash thing these days. People are just taking it testing it and playing around with all kinds of stuff to see what works.
Otherwise the Thai leg kick was like the longbow It revolutionised martial arts.
We forget the days of fighing in shiny pants.
I'm satisfied. It sounds like you have a good grasp of what's going on; I would like to see some footage of it. I can't quite grasp what stye of blocking you are referring to - I'd like to apply some of it in my next sparring session and see how it holds up against a few opponents so if you have any footage of what it actually is I'd like to see it. No doubt I'll get flattened; but it'll give me some idea of how it works that way and I'm always looking for an edge.
Originally Posted by strikistanian
I don't remember the scene in Here Comes The Boom where he was doing hand trapping, but that is a part of Muay Thai for sure. My roommate used to train at Sityodtong and he's showed me some of the clinch stuff they did and there was a surprising similarity between clinch framing and hand trapping.
Originally Posted by gregaquaman
Also, what is gunting? Sounds really familiar, but I can't place it.
Here's an example of some of their blocking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38uVH9-DCdk
Originally Posted by Ignoscant
And by the way I am going to put it out there that it will be more usefull range fighting where you have time to be tricky rather than in fighting where you don,t
Man I hate speaking so much from speculation, but that's all I've got right now.
I both agree and disagree with you on that. On one hand, I do agree that the elusiveness and trickiness of it will yield its greatest results at a distance for sure. Where I disagree is in (at least my perceived) implication that 52 wouldn't be useful close up.
It reminds me of German swordfighting, where each attack you throw will transfer you from one guarded stance to another. From a distance, it's mystifying. Up close, you can't perceive it as well, so it loses that effect, but it still covers you pretty well.
Here's a vid where LB is using the trickiness to counter strikes with shots.
The bit where they are both warming up for the final fight on the pads. I only noticed because I heard me yelling. "Hand trapping fucking awsome" when they did it.
Gunting is filipino? limb destruction.
And just for some fun. Chi sao to get a rear naked.
Muai takedown defence?
Caged muay thai.
Saw a guy dominate with the hip bump takedown.
(this is probably not the fight I saw just an example of caged muay thai)
LOL did you yell that in theaters or were you watching this at home?
Caged Muay Thai is pretty cool. I like the idea of striking rulesets using smaller gloves, as it's more realistic. Although, probably also more dangerous.
As for takedowns, MT definitely has some slick trips and finesse-y takedowns as part of the style. Practitioners get pretty used to dealing with that, but the vast majority that I've encountered (outside of those who also do MMA) can't handle when someone does the comparatively brutish "grab the legs and push forward" type dealy.
Got a mate of mine who is a big lanky prick who is playing whith what I will call drunken movement at the moment. And it is a tool that is working for him at the moment.
Originally Posted by strikistanian