Re: Sifu Rice At A Glance
Originally Posted by ChuckWepner
Yes, I believe so. I have tried to contact Galo, so unless I were to hear from him those questions would likely be the only things that could add information to this.
At this point the issues not resolved by correcting misreading / misunderstanding, etc., that I can identify that you feel there is reason to pursue are:
Did Larry Rice study Brazilian Jiu Jitsu under Rickson Gracie?
Does Larry Rice have an impressive fight record?
Nothing I can think of at the moment. I was unable to find any information about his instructor, Vic Payne, so I don't know if any of those certs would be questionable or not.
*1 Are there others remaining?*
There is only one issue I can think of that I didn't mention because it seemed to just be a semantic argument. He calls himself an "Associate Instructor" under Bobby Taboada. When I contacted Taboada's webmaster about this I was told:
1. "Associate Instructor" is a title of Larry's own invention.
2. Larry is permitted to teach up to what he knows under Taboada's system.
3. You are not considered any type of instructor in his system until you reach Level 6 or Level 7, which Larry is not.
Correct. The only thing I have been able to find about Larry's fights are on his website where I believe he vaguely mentions 'hundreds of fights throughout his life' or something to that effect. I just woke up, so I will get an exact quote in a bit.
I gather that the reason to think that Mr. Rice may have claimed these things is that a student of Mr. Rice's posted here that Mr. Rice studied BJJ under Rickson Gracie and also that Mr. Rice had an impressive fight record and had told him not to brag about it.
As of now, there has been no other evidence offered that Mr. Rice claimed these things and no evidence offered either way about whether Mr. Rice has ever trained with Rickson Gracie or about what his fight record may be.
I don't believe so. Keep in mind an investigation isn't any less valuable because a "fraud" is not uncovered.
*2 Is there other relevant evidence at this point of any fraud / dishonesty by Mr. Rice to be considered?*
We are talking about the late Hanshi Carl D Wilcox here, so unfortunately I am unable to speak with him.
There is no claim on Mr. Rice's website that he ever studied BJJ with anyone. This is despite the fact that he has a very extensive MA biography and names a large number of people under whom he has trained (including continuing training). He does not list BJJ among the five disciplines currently taught in classes at his academy, nor even among the larger group of nine in which he offers instruction.
Mr. Rice does list Ju Jitsu (a common, if a bit old-fashioned, variant spelling for JJJ) as something that he teaches. He also reports holding a black belt in Ju Jitsu received under Carl Wilcox (an 8th Dan Black Belt and Vice-President of the United States Ju-Jitsu Federation; note the spelling used by the organization, further confirming that this -- JJJ -- is what Mr Rice means when he refers to "Ju Jitsu").
I assume that Mr. Wilcox was one of those you contacted during your earlier investigation and that Mr. Wilcox confirmed Mr. Rice's jujutsu bona fides.
*3 Is that correct?*
I couldn't find mention of Larry on the USJJF site, but that doesn't mean it's not there. I didn't know how else to pursue this.
As it stands, this is correct.
So, Mr. Rice's Web page does not confirm the report that Mr. Rice claims expertise in BJJ at all, let alone that he claims expertise that he lacks in order to defraud people or enhance his professional standing.
I was too tired last night, but this morning I'm looking into the Rickson claim like Sam Browning said to do. I haven't found a direct method of contact yet, but I did find a site with belt holders where Larry's name is not mentioned.
I agree that this claim could be well within reason for someone that has been "in the game" for so long. Also, this is the quote I was speaking about earlier in my response.
Regarding his fight record, the only comment on his website is: "But most important, Sifu Rice was Ring Tested, participating in hundreds of fights in a dozen martial arts, mano a mano." This is an impressive claim, though "fights" is possibly ambiguous, but we are talking about someone who has earned several black belts in different martial arts, as your calls confirmed, so it is well within the realm of possibility for someone with 30 years in MA.
I was asking for clarification on this point because it seems vague and something people were asking about when SoR brought it up. It was also brought up that there should be some kind of records of these fights.
The apology was our only real conversation. When he found out I was checking with his instructors he seemed to me to be mad. He hurriedly gave me the contact of a couple instructors, not referring to them by title as he asked us to do in class, and then ceased contact with me. This all happened in the course of about a week. I wanted to ask him, but I didn't think directly after the apology was the best way to get answers, then I lost my chance.
*4 During your conversations with Mr. Rice, did you ask him about his BJJ training or teaching (if any)?*
*5 Did you ask him about what kinds of fights he has participated in or any other questions about his fight record?*
I think right now that is all.
*6 Do you have any more information about either of these or other remaining topics of concern that would clarify what specifically it is that you think requires further investigation?*