I think a lot of how you grapple and what moves you make use of is dependent not only on body type, but also personality, and situation.
I use fighting as a way to express myself, and hence my actions on the mat reflect my inner being to an extent:
I am a proud blue collar kind of guy, so I may have unconciously developed a no frills positional game. No X guard, no inverted guard, etc.
Or as mentioned before, there are some body type considerations in my, and I'm sure each of our games. I am a mostly legs 6'3, so I have good success with triangles, knee reaping techniques, and controlling from the back; and hence use these techniques which suit me more frequently when in competition.
Ideally though, we should all become experts at all moves/positions/techniques and be encyclopedias of knowledge.
You have made an excellent point, which I am surprised that I forgot to mention.
Originally Posted by Tramirezmma
Because I always use and advise rolling as a "personality test" for the people I train with.
I always be really careful about the guy, who's going %100 percent with me without even knowing me so well. (By %100 percent, I don't actually mean being strong or athletic whatsoever, but the intention to "do whatever it takes to win" attitude)
Because I somehow always end up having problem with these people afterwards, for some ego related issues.
This is an easy one, but seriously, I can easily say which person is kind or funny or patient or aggressive or not honest etc. after 1-2 sessions of rolling.
I can't say %100 of this comes from the technique, sometimes it's people's face, or the things they say before, after rolling etc. but even the techniques tell a lot about a person I guess.
The guy holding someone down but not trying to finish that frequently, or the other guy trying to finish whichever way possible no matter down or up, mostly end up being two different personalities.
We can even go deeper and relate all the rolling session to people performance in work etc. too but I think it would be getting out of the context so I better stop : ))
But I do believe personality is also a very important factor and I agree with you.
I don't know if I'm necessarily qualified to post in this thread, so feel free to remove my post or take some "varrots"
Style and gameplanning factor greatly into what I do... In competition, I always try to assess (to the best of my abilities) what my strengths and weaknesses are, and those of my opponent. For example, I am usually much stronger than opponents in my weight class, so I choose techniques that will enhance this attribute... And I don't mean strength-based techniques, I mean techniques where strength can pair well with good technique. The toe hold is one such thing, IMO.
Against strict BJJ players, I tend to favor my sambo and judo game, because BJJ guys are usually deficient in takedown training, and the usual single and double leg attacks don't work as well with the jacket. Conversely, I'll play more BJJ strategy against judo players that I feel are more advanced than me.
Speaking strictly of style, I choose a mix of techniques that I like, or think are aesthetically pleasing, along with high-percentage fundamentals... I love x-guard, firemans carries, sliding entries, etc. for that reason, but use standard triangles, back takes, and foot locks as my base. It's great to stick to fundamentals, but I want my grappling to have an aesthetic appeal, also. All the great guys do... Maybe someday I'll be that accomplished.
Originally Posted by jnp
Not a purple belt so take this for what it is worth. I find developing a style involves being honest enough with yourself to understand what you are good at versus what you wish to be good at. For example, I am self admitted terrible wrestler, it is less of a technique issue and more of an aggressiveness issue. While I love to score a takedown and score my 2 points even with my time in Judo and taking Wrestling classes I know I have better chance with pulling guard and scoring off the sweep. So I developed style off De La Riva hooks and X Guard Variants which I seem to have a knack for.
To me, style isn’t just about what position I have a good submission or two from, but a matter of where I am comfortable, where I have more options, and where I have more branches in my decision tree. I like butterfly guard, for example. But if I say that I’m building my bottom game around butterfly guard, that’s not just because I like the plain old butterfly sweep. It’s because it’s a platform around which I have more options and recoveries than other bottom positions. Stuff one of my hooks? OK, I’m very happy to play half butterfly. I get caught in bottom half? Butterfly, via half butterfly, is something I can work toward. So my guard game is butterfly centric not because I spend all my time there, but because I can attack from that and similar positions, and because I’m reasonably productive working toward it when recovering from inferior positions.
If you’re familiar with the concept of a phase space, this is basically what I’m talking about: Classic butterfly guard represents a point in the phase space of jiu-jitsu, and my game is butterfly-centric in that while I could place dots here and there in the landscape representing techniques I know, they’ll be clustered more thickly in the butterfly area.
Style to me is also about what fits together coherently. I’m not picking and choosing a technique here and a technique there that work for me; I’ve got nothing against guillotine chokes or N/S chokes, for instance, but they don’t fit into my game because they don’t come easily into my positional progression, from worst to best, of bottom -> half butterfly -> butterfly -> sweep -> side -> KoB -> mount -> back. I want techniques that work from there, especially the stable platforms like KoB; and I want techniques that complement each other, like closed guard cross choke -> scissors sweep when they defend -> other side butterfly if they post their leg where I can reach it. Action/reaction stuff, where I can use the defence to one of my attacks as an opening for another. Obviously it doesn’t always work out well, but that’s my idea, anyway… As a consequence, when I try to incorporate new techniques into my game, it’s typically by looking at what stymies me: When I observed that people caught on to my attacks from mount, I started trying to exploit their turning-to-side defence to work technical mount or the back.
So for me, I guess my personal style (very much under construction) is built around the observation of what positional recoveries and progressions work for me, emphasising techniques that work well (a) from the platforms of the positions in my progression, and (b) fit coherently together with the techniques I already use from those platforms, preferably in a complementary action-reaction manner.
I think this is an excellent post. It addresses the probabilities of situations that you are in and the reasons you should focus on certain techniques. The fact that is butterfly and half butterfly makes me happy too.
Originally Posted by Petter
I have a few techniques I do with all opponents and I have a few saved for each bodytype/mentality and I work within a framework that petter was speaking.
I wonder if there are any other guys like me.
What I really like doing while rolling is the "passive" strategy. Except the guys that are definitely better than me, in that case, I just go with whatever I have.
I mean, I like just waiting for the opponent. I stall the game sometimes, put my opponent in positions where he has to make effort to get out of.
But I also try to put them in positions, where they "better" do something to get out of because the position is either too awkward, too uncomfortable or too risky to stay at.
Once they start to move, I also start to move, once they stop, I also stop.
And hopefully, after the rolling my opponent often gets very tired.
I really enjoy playing this game, but it definitely doesn't work against:
- higher level guys (well, obviously...)
- Very athletic, powerful, good gas tank guys
- Not impossible, but a little harder with "solid, no mistake" guys
Anyone else like playing this game?
My top game style developed out of nessecessity. There are several big, strong, black, and brown † †belts at my gym. †The pinning strategy doesn't work for me on them. Instead when I pass their guards I pretty much pass directly into KOB and continually hover above while applying the least amount of weight possible in an attempt to avoid impeding my opponents movement. †I look for any opening and try to hit a submission in transition. †Like snagging an arm when they go from on their back to turtle. †I want them to move. †I try to anticipate reactions from what my experience tells me they will do, and adapt appropriately.†
And when I say I play KOB it includes reverse KOB but again with the least amount of weight on them.†
At times I am literally standing, bent at the waist 90 degrees, legs completely straight, past my opponents guard with maybe my one hand lightly touching their hip, and the other touching the opposite shoulder.†
Not only personality and physical limitations play in IMO.
What weight and level you compete at also has a significant impact.
At the higher weights takedowns get more and more important unless you're supremely confident in your guard abilities. ( And big guys are harder to beat from the bottom )
At the lower weights passing guard abilities are increasingly important as many fights are a battle of who pulls guard first.
This is generally, there are loads of exceptions. Pe De Pano for instance.
I'm honestly having a lot of trouble figuring out my style at the moment, especially in a gi.
I'm an MMA fighter first and foremost, so my style is largely influenced by that. When I'm rolling competitively, I strive to be on top and to climb the positional ladder. However, I am very comfortable off of my back and I'm willing to risk losing position in order to attack submissions.
When I'm in guard, I'll throw up footprints-on-ceiling triangles from wrist control or look for overhook control to attack with triangles and omoplatas. If I'm not having success with that, I'll start looking to work the hip-bump to guillotine. If that's not working, I'll sit back to butterfly guard and start looking for the classic sweep or armdrag. While in half-guard I constantly attack the back-take and the whizzer sweep until one works or they leave me space to re-guard. In general I play very fast and loose (tee hee) because I can scramble very well and have strong escapes and defense. While this has worked for me well in tournaments, I feel like I would benefit a lot from getting a tighter, more deliberate/less scrambly game.
However, very little of this works for me in the gi. Because I'm god-awful at grip-fighting, I have a very tough time pulling any of this off. I pretty much get owned until I use my scrambling/athleticism to wrestle my way on top. At which point, I rarely accomplish more than holding position or mounting for a little bit.
Surprisingly (considering how awful I am in a gi) I was awarded my purple belt just the other day. As such I am trying my damn best to patch up the fundamental holes in my game, and to find a style for gi grappling. Because up until now, I've just tried my best to imitate my nogi game when wearing the gi. But it feels really disembodied and incohesive.
At the moment my main focus is trying to get an offensive guard going, since the only thing I can competently do against solid players is regain my guard. So far I've taken a liking to the standard armbar, the overhook control, and the cross collar choke. I mean, I can't pull them off on anybody good, but those are the moves that feel best to me and that I want to cultivate.