I've noted those two different ideas with the head control for framing. Both shown here
Originally Posted by jnp
Kurt/Lemmy had the arm inside the head, to create pressure from the neck.
JNP's vid shows pushing on the outside of the head, Demian Maia shows it this way also.
Are there positives and negatives to each of these? Which is more effective? or is it more a attack whichever is the weaker angle at the time kinda thing?
They are both excellent techniques, and it is a case of "attack whichever is the weaker angle at the time kinda thing". In other words, there are positions where one of these techniques is the better answer in both cases.
Originally Posted by 100xobm
In fact, using them in an alternating manner would be a good example of one of the two step chains that Petter mentioned earlier.
If the guy is super tight with his side control you won't be able to frame inside ala the Kurt video. Also, doing so can sometimes open up a wrist-lock counter. To my mind the Maia version is more powerful, but you have to let him closer to do it and, if bodged badly, there's a far-side armbar opening.
You can also, as jnp alluded to, do the Maia/outside of the head version in order to open space to get your hands inside. I do that a lot, works also against being cross-faced in the half-gaurd.
Thank you fellas.
Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
Much risk of the bad guy slipping his head around into an arm triangle on the maia version?
EDIT: Bad guy? **** I'm tired.
The bad news is you either suck big time or work with people who know the value of a good pin. The good news is it seems, given your brief description, you're at least getting some halfway competent live instruction - thus, you'll get better with more time in.
So, stop worrying about it. If you can't let it go, come to NYC and I'll introduce you to a tiny little old man Judoka who happens to have a world-class pin. He'll squash your anxiety over being flat on your back right out of you.
uhm was that directed at me ? i admit to sucking gleefully :D (i've only trained groundwork for about 10 months) the anxiety part is more or less "i'm not doing something thus i am losing" mentality for me
by pinning in this do you mean tightly making sure there's no space for your opponent to pretty much do anything (including breathing in some uhm "slightly" bigger cases)
i should've probably added that this was the latest thing i was working on before my sick leave from practice and i wanted mostly food for thought and ideas what to start working on when i get back to training instead of simply you know being still and healing up
i am also flattered by your invitation and would take you up on it would i have moneys to fly halfway over the world (well almost)
Dude, side control will for always suck. Its such an established position, because its solid and hard to escape. If the other guy is halfway decent at keeping side control, and that's all he's doing, you're likely not going to escape right now. If he is working for other options from the side control, that is the time to escape.
that, or right before he establishes a crushing side control you gotta be gone already.
Don't let them control your head use your frames to prevent this (ie T-rex arms) side control becomes infinitely easier to escape.
well syphilis i tend to agree with you as i usually hope for dear life that once someone gets side control that someone will try to mount me and i make absolutely no resistance to people mounting me from side control as it feels to be a hundred times easier to escape
now as to this controlling the head i meant to ask earlier what exactly do you mean by this, like do you mean someone getting an arm under your head ? pushing head to the side ? (i feel both of these somewhat categorize to head control but my feeling and reality are often 2 very different things)
or did i completely miss the point and if so please explain :D
goddamn i think im asking too many questions and not just doing enough practice (2 more weeks >.>)
Exactly the crossface. For now focusing on blocking that arm from controlling your head. This will allow you to shrimp as well escape to your knees.
Originally Posted by Zenitys