Apologies for getting off on a sidetrack in your thread though.
Just wanted to add..
Fixing bayonets in modern warfare has as much to do with the psychological effect upon the enemy as it has killing the fuckers with it.
In 1982 during the Falklands conflict, Argentinian soldiers surrendered to a Gurkha regiment, choosing not to fight because of the fear they had over the kukri and how they expected the Gurkhas to fight with it. - Classic example.
Not sure if anyone posted it, but you could always try finding a jukendo school:
here's my input on using bayonets in the hand, for what it's worth.
every now and then i go pig hunting with my brothers. they live for it, breed their own dogs especially for the job, suit them up in armour, modify their vehicles and use knives made specifically for sticking pigs.
i'm interested in bayonets myself, so absolutely had to experiment with some of the knives/bayonets i own.
first of all, the sucking thing is definitely a myth. regardless of the shape, everything slides out easily once it's gone in.
the first bayonet i used was this:
it's the most beautiful bayonet in existence in my opinion. made by the swiss. it's not designed to be sharp and it's quite hefty. on the end of a big rifle, used as a bayonet, it would probably be excellent. but i can tell you that in the hand, it was awkward and difficult to penetrate and hit the heart, and caused the pig a lot of suffering.
after that, i decided to give my other bayonets a miss. i have others which are sharpened and would work better, but they're still too thick and heavy.
so next i tried my kabar:
thanks america, you make my favourite knife. killed around 6 pigs with it, i took this photo after the hunt. compared to the bayonet, it's night-and-day. much lighter, thinner blade, easier to handle. just slides in, and it's easily long enough to reach the heart. after using the bayonet, i really appreciated the grooves which made it lighter, and the ergonomic and grippier grip. once there is blood all over it, you don't want your hand to slip in any direction! great multi-purpose blade.
and of course, my bro uses an F Dick pig sticker. it's made for the job, and it's the best at the job.
it's even lighter, thinner and you keep it sharp. by far the easiest to handle, just the right length, double-edged, slides in like a hot knife through butter. the thinner grip actually helps. i would happily use this in hand-to-hand combat with a human.
the method you use does NOT involve stabbing wildly. you first grab the pig and control it. then press the side of the blade against the pig to find the point you want to enter, then thrust. this makes for an accurate perforation of the heart, the pig dies a LOT faster and you don't accidentally stab yourself or the dogs. at night, this technique becomes even more important. precision killing.
if killing a person is anything like killing a human, it's not like the movies. even if you hit the heart/arteries, there is going to be a short period of time when they can still hurt you. maintain control before and after. sometimes you see a wound which you think has done them in, but they keep fighting for a long time. and they're going to scream. i wouldn't call it an oink or a squeal, pigs can fucking scream. one time i noticed a pig looked me straight in the eye, and i could see true rage. reminded me of a one bloke i restrained while doing security.
also, good luck separating the ribs without the weight of a rifle behind your thrust. you have to slide between them.
just found this thread, nicely spotted greg.
about the bayonet pamphlet...
that makes sense and i'd like to believe it. wish they didn't mention the suction thing immediately after...Quote:
It has a curved part on the back of the blade, this must not be sharpened as this will reduce the blade's rib parting ability
Can't help that. I didn't write the teaching material.
i know :) just saying.
Idiots who start stabbing wildly often end up getting themselves or others zipped or gored and dogs killed saving their asses , a pissed off hog can swivel under you and do a hell of a lot of damage even without getting you down , and if it gets you down you're in some serious frigging trouble.
My opinion on blades such as the F Dick is mixed , I've broken a half dozen knives doing it and two of them were Gerber Mark IIs and they both broke in the same place and they were *both* the 440c version as opposed to the early L6 tool steel version.
I'm still interested in what you folks are using for dogs down there ,whether for catch or strike or bay usage. Y'all using a silent strike dog or one that Bells immediately?
Here there's a limit on the number of dogs one can use so folks doing catch and kill ( gotta have a depredation permit for it now) sometimes will run a silent strike dog with two bay dogs that will bell up when they get the hog bayed , the you lead up the strike dog and send in the catch dogs as you pull the bay dogs off.
And quite frankly nowadays it's a lot easier to just get 'em bayed up and walk up and shoot 'em in the damn head from 20 feet away , we've got too damn many of them to be screwing around wrestling and sticking 'em , much less live catch.
By the way , if you're gonna do the catch dog thing , don't listen to the idiots who tell you to train that dog to catch by the ear , an ear is just a flap of skin to a hog and a dog that catches there will have the hog swivel on it and zip him real bad if it's a boar , it it's a sow it will be worse because whatever she gets her mouth on is going to turn to pulp and bone shards.
As to what works for catch dogs , it's more of a case of what *doesn't* work , a whole slew of breeds that are passed off by the AKC ,UKC , BKC etc. as being " originally a boar hunting dog" are dismal failures at it , a great many terriers are unsuitable for a different reason , that being they'll tend to fight the hog too much and get themselves killed *especially the various Bull Terriers * , Airedales are a bit better but still problematic.
Personally I prefer CataHoulas ( Leopard Cur) or Blackmouth Curs , though had to go to Dabney for blood with the necessary grit , I won't risk the Patterdales or APBTs doing it anymore.
And if anyone is going to tell me how wonderfully fantastic their APBT is as a catch dog
don't bother , since it's one of three things , you've an example that's the drastic exception to the rule , you're full of **** , or you just haven't managed to run the dog into a hog that will kill it yet.
Me , well I like Plotts for strike dogs , but then I don't mind a hardheadeded independent type dog , Walkers nowadays are so soft they have to come back and sniff your ass to make sure you're still coming along.
Just shoot the fucking bastards, knives are for pussies anyway.