i've been training with the genbukan for nearly 4 years and i love it. But i do have to agree with some of the guys who bad mouth it that most practitionars do not train properly. Once i have hot used to the technique i start using it with lots of force and with increasing resistance, with willing participants of course!. And on saturdays me and a few training partners really go for it. All the vids i have ever seen are just slow choreographed nonsense. I'm not being biast as most of the guys at my dojo do the same and have no idea how to really fight. Are their other out their in the same boat?

i've been training with the genbukan for nearly 4 years and i love it. But i do have to agree with some of the guys who bad mouth it that most practitionars do not train properly. Once i have hot used to the technique i start using it with lots of force and with increasing resistance, with willing participants of course!. And on saturdays me and a few training partners really go for it. All the vids i have ever seen are just slow choreographed nonsense. I'm not being biast as most of the guys at my dojo do the same and have no idea how to really fight. Are their other out their in the same boat?

Chances are if you're the best at your dojo and "most other guys" don't know how to fight your dojo dosen't do an adequate job of teaching fighting skill. Chances are also that you're not as good as you think. I've been in that situation before where I didn't feel extremely challenged when sparring other fighters. Even though I was able to do well I still realized I was no where as good as I could have been. Now that I've switched schools I feel a lot more challenged.

Any chance you could post a quick cheap cell phone video of your weekend training?

don't get me wrong their are alot of guys who are better than i am. And there are alot of good fighters at my dojo and in the genbukan in general. But like i said their are alot of people at my school, one others i've met and seen who really haven't got it in them. Luckily my sensai is incredible and very respected. Just something thats started to bug me as i've progressed through the ranks. Where abouts are you based? I'll try and get some vids up soon, only signed up today!today!today!today!

Go to a BJJ/Judo/Sambo school and see how you hold up with someone of equivalent rank or post video of you Genbukan Parnters going at it.

Which Genbukan school are you in?

shinjin dojo. Uk. I dont think i would stand much of a chance against a bjj, as our jujutsu is very different, effective if trained properly, but different. I'll try and get a vid up

shinjin dojo. Uk. I dont think i would stand much of a chance against a bjj, as our jujutsu is very different, effective if trained properly, but different. I'll try and get a vid up

^^^ Tell me, do you see a problem with that statement?

Think about it.

OP,

When I grapple against a bjj practitioner who is better at grappling I lose, when I grapple against a bjj practitioner and I am better I win. I can hold my own while standing and competing for the takedown, but usually get submitted quickly afterwards by any one who has a belt.

See! That was simple. Please don't complicate the issues. Please search the history of the site, and you will see many ninja practitioners complicate the discussion a lot.

Please note: I made a description of my abilities without any proof. They are very modest claims. If I make any exceptional claims about my own ability or the ability of the styles I train I WILL be called out and only VALID evidence will help my case. That is the nature of this forum.

I am very familiar with Tanemura's Kokusai Jujutsu Renmei. My Black Belt in JJJ is the same Ryu-ha as that org (Takagi Yoshin-ryu & Asayama Ichiden-ryu) . I know it is effective if properly trained. The question is are YOU properly training it. I use a lot of the standing Ayasama Ichiden-ryu Techniques during Judo grip fighting and one of our black belts comes with me to BJJ and is able to apply the Takagi Yoshin-ryu Pins and locks into his ground work surprising well (Ask Stick and Hedgehogey if you don't believe me). But that isn't you. If you can't handle yourself against BJJers or Judoka or Sambo Players, you aren't studying it in an effective matter. That fact other people can use it effectively doesn't mean ****.

That fact other people can use it effectively doesn't mean ****.

Plasma, I would respectfully disagree on this point, especially considering we have had plenty of posters involved with arts that have failed to establish their art works for ANYONE. Also, the OP has had concern about his training, so functionality of the overall art is important. Your feedback moves the question to the quality of the school he is at.

Plasma, I would respectfully disagree on this point, especially considering we have had plenty of posters involved with arts that have failed to establish their art works for ANYONE. Also, the OP has had concern about his training, so functionality of the overall art is important. Your feedback moves the question to the quality of the school he is at.

What you are missing is I have run into the argument "Takamatsu did full contact fighting to prove it works, so we don't have to." Or "<Insert high ranking guy with a Judo background here> can make it work so I know it is effective. " All of that is bullshit. You can't ride other people's coat tails to success.

I told him to find other people of SIMILAR rank. If he is a Ninpo/JJJ Green and gets demolished by a Judo Green or a BJJ 2-3 stripe white belt. Something is wrong with his training.

Plasma, Has the style the OP is talking about produced any effective fighters from scratch? Just curious.

Plasma, Has the style the OP is talking about produced any effective fighters from scratch? Just curious.

Depends on what you mean by from scratch unfortunately. All of the Japanese can have someone point to the fact they did Judo (all Japanese do Judo during High School). As for non Japanese, you have to discount wrestlers for the same reason. But I have seen the Genbukan produce some solid fighters, mostly from the 90s (especially the Israelis) when Tanemura had a giant chip on his shoulder and encouraged full contact and frankly pretty dangerous training. In fact I have the video on DVD of Tanemura breaking someone arm during a weapon disarm. It seems those days of the Genbukan are long gone.

mike321 and lionknight
the taijutsu and jujutsu we train in does not focus on prolonged grappling, its effectivly an old form of reality based self defence. Do i belive i could hold my own against a similar ranked bjj/judo player in a fight. Yes. But bettering them in what they focus on, i dont think so! I have grappled with a friend who did bjj for 6 months and i usually beet him. But what im really asking is are their any genbukan members out there who have similler feelings about what i originaly asked?

I have grappled with a friend who did bjj for 6 months and i usually beet him.


And what was this guy training intensity? He wouldn't happen to be one of your dojo mates who went to a BJJ class once in 2-3 weeks for a 6 month period?

Because we did have a ninpo guy do that in my Judo dojo, and then report that he got "owned" by his dojo mates.

On the other hand, we have had a "Kung fu master" and former (now banned) member challenge a staff member (a forum leader at the time) here on Bullshido, and got beaten in less than 90 seconds. Our staff member was at the time a white belt in BJJ with 10 months of MMA training, but as far as I know, he trained consistently (at least 3 times a week).

no he is a friend, and excellent boxer of 6 years weighing 15 stone, so hes not short of strength. He trained 3 hours a week for 5 months. Spoke to him earlier! Thats the point i was making originaly. There are only a 10-15 guys at my dojo i would want to train with, and most are alot higher grades than me. What i'm asking is, has any one else in the tma's had similar problems. I've had a bit of experience in western and tai boxing, loved the sparring but never really got into it. I've been thinking of cross training in a pure grappling art for a while now. any recommendations and why?

mike321 and lionknight
the taijutsu and jujutsu we train in does not focus on prolonged grappling, its effectivly an old form of reality based self defence. Do i belive i could hold my own against a similar ranked bjj/judo player in a fight. Yes. But bettering them in what they focus on, i dont think so! I have grappled with a friend who did bjj for 6 months and i usually beet him. But what im really asking is are their any genbukan members out there who have similler feelings about what i originaly asked?

So how EXACTLY is your grappling different?

First you say you couldn't beat them, then you say you do, you really need to be more clear.