Quick, basic question (poss. lame).

I know that the Booj has ranks up to 15th Dan. Are there any MAs with more Dan ranks than this?

Fanx.

I always assumed that anything above ten was bogus, never knew the booj had fifteen!

Can't find any on google, but I remember seeing a 20th dan somewhere on the site, from some McDojo somewhere.

I always assumed that anything above ten was bogus, never knew the booj had fifteen!

Can't find any on google, but I remember seeing a 20th dan somewhere on the site, from some McDojo somewhere.

Apparently, it's possible to achieve a rank greater than 10th Dan in Judo, though no-one ever has.

http://www.judoinfo.com/obi.htm
(wonder if that would be a red belt with stripe?)

WRT the Booj, the story I heard was that Hatsumi took a look at his org one day and realized that there were way too many 8th, 9th and 10th dans who'd been promoted too quickly and weren't the super-elites that the rank would suggest and too many in general. So he added more levels in an attempt to unfuck things. Funny if true.

Pirate-jutsu.

Apparently, it's possible to achieve a rank greater than 10th Dan in Judo, though no-one ever has.

http://www.judoinfo.com/obi.htm
(wonder if that would be a red belt with stripe?)

I'm thinking it would be the dead persons spine that you snapped by throwing a guy into him who also died... at the same time.

Apparently, it's possible to achieve a rank greater than 10th Dan in Judo, though no-one ever has.

http://www.judoinfo.com/obi.htm
(wonder if that would be a red belt with stripe?)

The dan ranks in Judo are theoretically unlimited, I recall reading somewhere that Kano had specified a double width white belt for the rank of 12th dan. Although I can't remember where or when I read that, so may have invented it.

A stripe would be highly unlikely as a potential indicator for a rank above 10th dan. As in Japan it isn't customary to indicate rank through stripes on belts. There are some who have a tab that can be sewn onto the bottom the of the gi skirt, that indicates rank through stripes, but on belts its effectively un heard of.

The colour red is chosen specifically because its associations in Japanese culture with ends and new beginnings. White similarly was chosen for its associations with beginning and also endings. White is used as a funeral colour in Japanese society. As well as being associated with women, due to their ability to produce new life, hence the Joshi obi.

If there are no people with a dan grade higher than 10th, than how would somebody get promoted to a higher grade? Being able to indiscriminately kick other 10th dans asses?

In my branch of Kyokushin I think the 2 highest people are both 9th Dans ... and 1 of them only got promoted to that recently.

If there are no people with a dan grade higher than 10th, than how would somebody get promoted to a higher grade? Being able to indiscriminately kick other 10th dans asses?

I know in JJJ the higher dans have to be awarded by the association for contributions to the martial art and the like. I imagine there's a similar system in most of the japanese arts.

As far as Goju-ryu karate is concerned, 1-dan through 5-dan are the skill ranks and then 6th-10th are based on contribution to the karate world.

The only guy I can think of in my style with that rank is Morio Higaonna and the dude's 80 and just received the rank in 2007.

If there are no people with a dan grade higher than 10th, than how would somebody get promoted to a higher grade? Being able to indiscriminately kick other 10th dans asses?

Or being *really* well respected by the other 10th dans for his achievements and services to the art?
Or successfully introducing the art to another sapient species?
Or winning the Kumite after purposefully entering unseeded and fighting though all 52 elimination rounds?


I know in JJJ the higher dans have to be awarded by the association for contributions to the martial art and the like. I imagine there's a similar system in most of the japanese arts.

Yeah, like the council or elders, or the board, or whatever. Or the Soke - in arts that have a Soke and also use the kyu-dan system...

To use Hatsumi as an example - AFAIK, he doesn't actually hold a specific rank in the Bujinkan, yet he promotes people to whatever rank he considers deserving as head of the organization.

Actually, I think Jigoro Kano was the same in that regard...

If there are no people with a dan grade higher than 10th, than how would somebody get promoted to a higher grade? Being able to indiscriminately kick other 10th dans asses?
Awards for 6th dan and above are given for advancement and understanding of the principles and philosophy of Judo, not for fighting prowess.

I mean nowadays these guys aren't much of a fighting force:
http://judoinfo.com/images/DaigoAbeOsawa.jpg
(From L to R: Ichiro Abe -87- 10th dan, Yoshimi Osawa -83- 10th dan and Toshiro Daigo -84- 10th dan)

Although in their day they were formidable. As there had been no living Japanese 10th dan for 15 years Yukimitsu Kano the then Kodokan kancho decided to promote all three to 10th dan in 2006.

This is of course mainly discussing the Kodokan 10th dan. The IJF and NGB issue 10th dan as well. For example the late Charlie Palmer of Great Britian and Anton Gessink of Holland were awarded by 10th dan by the IJF. Henri Courtine of France, George Kerr of Great Britian and Jaap Nauwelaerts de Agé of Holland have all been awarded 10th dan by their respective NGB.

Awards for 6th dan and above are given for advancement and understanding of the principles and philosophy of Judo, not for fighting prowess.

I mean nowadays these guys aren't much of a fighting force:
http://judoinfo.com/images/DaigoAbeOsawa.jpg
(From L to R: Ichiro Abe -87- 10th dan, Yoshimi Osawa -83- 10th dan and Toshiro Daigo -84- 10th dan)

Although in their day they were formidable.

You know (this is something I mentioned a while back on the 'stupid things you used to believe about MAs' thread), a few years ago, I'd have read about those guys and immediately assumed that they were three of the most powerful and deadly fighters in the world. Yaknow, on account of the 'fact' that the older a practitioner of an Asian MA is, the stronger he is - and that a blackbelt is an empirically measured indicator of fighting power, with fighting power increasing on a logarithmic scale with each additional Dan (a bit like the Richter Scale), maybe with some borderline supernatural/mystic powers developing at the higher levels... :dink:

The dan ranks in Judo are theoretically unlimited, I recall reading somewhere that Kano had specified a double width white belt for the rank of 12th dan. Although I can't remember where or when I read that, so may have invented it.

A stripe would be highly unlikely as a potential indicator for a rank above 10th dan. As in Japan it isn't customary to indicate rank through stripes on belts. There are some who have a tab that can be sewn onto the bottom the of the gi skirt, that indicates rank through stripes, but on belts its effectively un heard of.

The colour red is chosen specifically because its associations in Japanese culture with ends and new beginnings. White similarly was chosen for its associations with beginning and also endings. White is used as a funeral colour in Japanese society. As well as being associated with women, due to their ability to produce new life, hence the Joshi obi.



ive been trying to find out why red is used for years. everybody i ask is like uhhh uhhh uhhh. but now finally after all this time lol.

Yes, red symbolizes old age....60 years old I think. On your 60th birthday you get to wear a redbelt, or if your old school you will wear a red belt from that day on. Being that older people are typically higher ranked in Japanese TMA, the two got associated together..although a relative beginner can wear a red belt if they are 60+. 60 being the average lifespan of a Japanese person (at one point in time, at least) and that if anyone lived beyond that it was like they were starting a new life...red, blood, bloody afterbirth, etc.

I think red can be worn by some women too, not sure how that works though..judoka_uk makes some association with that, he might know more.

Most JTMA don't have physical tests beyond 4th dan...some for 5th dan but that's usually just a special demonstration for an event such as a VIP from Japan visiting or a big seminar/celebration, etc.

At 4th dan, its common to receive the title "renshi" or "polished one" insinuating that person has polished his technique and is about approaching being as highly skilled a technician as he's ever gonna be. Beyond that, when one promotes they often receive such titles as "shihan" or "kyoshi" which meanings imply more of a personal or spiritual growth and an ability to teach others to better themselves (beyond simply kicking/punching/sitting on their face etc). Titles like these translate to "model person" or have some significance referring to their ability to translate martial concepts and training to personal and self-growth, etc etc. Likewise, one gets promoted beyond 4th dan levels based on the above-mentioned attributes (mentioned by other posters) as well as their contribution to their respective martial art (articles written, students taught, seminars taught, ideas shared with organization and implemented, schools run, regions managed, etc).

You know (this is something I mentioned a while back on the 'stupid things you used to believe about MAs' thread), a few years ago, I'd have read about those guys and immediately assumed that they were three of the most powerful and deadly fighters in the world. Yaknow, on account of the 'fact' that the older a practitioner of an Asian MA is, the stronger he is - and that a blackbelt is an empirically measured indicator of fighting power, with fighting power increasing on a logarithmic scale with each additional Dan (a bit like the Richter Scale), maybe with some borderline supernatural/mystic powers developing at the higher levels... :dink:

You haven't seen when they use their fusion powers to combine yet..... man, have you got some word-eating to do.

Not only that, but that guy in the middle there? He can crap in his adult daipers with enough force to destory an entire city block, not to mention the fallout in the surrounding area.