Hello everyone, I've been slowly getting through your website suggestions. I am probably going to start with Frank's website to get my feet wet with the stick work. I will certainly keep the other sites in mind.

Another question for you gentlemen: Is there a particular place that is recommended for getting ironwood (kamagong?) sticks. So far the sites that have been posted have had some options, but once again, I see a wide variety in prices (from $27-$65). What is considered the "standard price"?

Hello everyone, I've been slowly getting through your website suggestions. I am probably going to start with Frank's website to get my feet wet with the stick work. I will certainly keep the other sites in mind.

Another question for you gentlemen: Is there a particular place that is recommended for getting ironwood (kamagong?) sticks. So far the sites that have been posted have had some options, but once again, I see a wide variety in prices (from $27-$65). What is considered the "standard price"?

There really isn't a standard price for ironwood and you are right, it does fluctuate widely depending on where you go. Much of that is due to the cosmetic aspect of the sticks. Ironwood tends to vary a bit in its pattern and some of the prettier ones are more desirable so people will spend more on them.

I ended up getting my hardwood sticks (Giho rather than Kamagong) from Kali gear but there are multiple places you could go. Simon at eskrimakaliarnis.com has great sticks and will certainly take care of you. Also, I have always had great service from Leslie Buck at kaligear.com. In addition, you could simply get a north American hardwood and probably save yourself some money and end up with just as good of a set of sticks in the process. There is nothing magical about Filipino hardwood so I wouldn't worry about that so much. If you treat them properly, a good set of hardwoods will last you virtually forever so the initial price isn't that big of a deal in the long run unless you are really getting hosed in the process.

Good luck...

Rattan is pretty much superior to any hardwood for stickfighting purposes because of its structure. Hardwoods can crack and break since the grain usually doesn’t run the length of the stick. Rattan just kinda gets fiberous on the outside after abuse. I’ve also read some bad reviews on the Cold Steel black sticks, about them having air pockets in the material that cause them to crack and break. I’ve got some great hardwood sticks, but I just do solo practice with them (my favorite’s a blackthorne shillelagh with a rounded, polished head).

Anecdote: a few years ago, I was sparring in the park, with a short bokken vs one of those Dog Brothers rattan sticks (used to do this regularly, but haven’t in a few years). After an exchange, my partner noticed that a piece of my bokken had snapped off- there was a triangular wedge about three inches long that broke off the tip. It was small enough that we might not have noticed it, but it broke at such an angle that it made the tip sharp like a vampire killing stake. It’s a good thing he noticed and I didn’t rush in for a thrust/stab because it would have caused serious damage. That’s when I was really sold on rattan.

I like the Dog Brothers sticks. I even picked up a long staff at the last gathering at the merch table. They’re stout and solid, but I think they’re a bit much for sparring with. Maybe I’m just kind of a wuss, but I’d rather have a smaller diameter stick for sparring others. For the FMA group I started training with, I’ll probably get some of those cheaper bulk rattan ones, since I’m bigger than most people there and they tend to use sticks a little smaller than the DBMA ones. I’m not sure about the ones bloodsport.com sells, but I know that they don’t sell crap.

I'd never use kamagong in a stick-to-stick fight. It's friggin brittle. I know that I've told this story here before at some point, but back in about '91, some of the Stockton GMs put on a tournament where they tried using kamagong (hardcore, and all that). The first set of fighters broke 3 sticks. The second match broke another 1. The third match broke the last two kamagong sticks, and they switched to rattan.

At this time, my clubmates and I had just purchased a bunch of kamagong, and were confident that our stuff was the real deal and from a good supplier. Nevertheless, we felt it only a good idea to test the sticks out. We verified that almost any moderate to heavy stick-to-stick would break the kamagong. Stick to hardshell helmets broke them as well.

I wouldn't ever rely on kamagong in a stickfight. For home defense against someone not wearing body armor or carrying a stick?... Maybe.

Also note that when kamagong breaks, it is a catastrphic break. Sharp chunks will go flying. Rattan doesn't do this. It just becomes a whip.

All great advice that comes with years of practice and experience. Thanks all

Kombat Instruments ugly sticks kept me swinging for 2 years. bloodsport.com
www.eskrimakaliarnis.com quality and cheap as hell if you buy enough to get wholesale rates.

I just got another pair of KIL sticks and I figure they worth reviving this thread for.

I've been mixing in some La Canne material into my single-stick but I found that my 2in diameter sticks were too hefty for the task, so I splurged on a pair of 5/8in diameter La Canne sticks from KIL and I am very happy with them. It seems like KIL might have actually improved the original La Canne design by going with this grade of rattan instead of the traditionally used hardwood, as I no longer have to worry about my stick exploding into a million splinters on my sparring-fellow's face if I hit too hard.

Keep up the good craftsmanship, Pappydog!

Rattan excels at being able to withstand abuse at smaller diameters than most wood.

It seems so. It also seems that Malacca, a type of rattan, is historically accurate to be used in recreating La Canne Vigny and Bartitsu, which is an additional bonus. I'll be sure to bring them with me to SD when I go down there.

4 bucks sound just about right. Transmuting that to php it would be around 200php. Which is a bit more expensive than kali sticks here in the Philippines, probably due to transportation and warehousing though.

I've never bought a kali stick for Kali/Escrima but rather for hitting the mid-section during crunches. So take my post with a grain of salt.

Changing the subject slightly, I'm looking into some other (non-rattan) material for making some kali sticks.

Has anyone ever used black palm? It has the same fibrous construction as rattan, but supposedly denser/heavier. If I make some shortish ones (24") I think I could make them lighter and thinner with the same or greater durability as rattan. I think it's the same wood that KIL sells for $60 a pair.. They call it "bahi".
http://bloodsport.com/images/bahi2.jpg
Here's the lumber picture from woodcraft.com:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Images/products/153011.jpg?rand=450780739
Feedback would be appreciated.

I hear bahi is one of the strongest woods in the Philippines. The ones I learned about in FMA are bahi, makuno and kamagong. A while back I bought a pair of kamagong sticks, and I like them for practicing in the air. They've got a good, solid feel, and are often thought of more as weapons than the rattan ones. I'm kinda curious about how kamagong actually stands up to pressure. I've heard its hardness actually makes it more brittle, so more likely to break in a fray of people and weapons. Not really sure though, and I like my kamagong sticks, so I don't really want to subject them to hard testing.

Kamagong sticks can shatter with hard weapon on weapon contact. I have a pair that I use just for solo workouts. And kamagong is sensitive to heat and humidity, making it warp and split. Kamagong trees are also listed as a protected species here.

IMHO bahi is better. It's readily available. It will crumble rather than shatter like kamagong. Bahi and kamagong have traditionally been used for applications that require sturdy wood. Old houses here are often bought by salvaging companies that strip them for the hardwood.

Staircase steps, posts, pillars and door and cabinet handles are some of the common uses for these hardwoods, aside from deadly impact weapons of course.

What do you mean "crumble"? Like fall apart, or chip off pieces, or splinter like rattan?

Think of bahi as consisting of fibers held together by a kind of resin. Depending on the quality of the bahi, the fibers can be somewhat widely spaced or packed tight. The fibers are like wire; bahi sticks can cause splinters if not sanded properly.

If you use a bahi stick on a hard object, the fibers and the resin binding them will deteriorate and break up. In a way it will splinter like rattan, but unlike rattan, the resin gives bahi much more strength and durability.

I went to the store and found bahi. I didn't buy it because it's shockingly heavy. I felt like my stick work would be too slow.

I will pick up cheapo rattan sticks at the school instead.