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artiemask
6/02/2010 10:58pm,
Has any ever seen a poom certificate written for adults.
A friend just received such a promotion. Tried to give good council but
as he told me Jidokwan federation Issued the paperwork. Now correct me if im wrong but I didnt think jidokwan issued dan certificates.
Thank You
Artiemask

daishi
6/02/2010 11:02pm,
I will try to find out....a buddy of mine has trained in Jidokwan for about 20 years and I will see him tomorrow night. Standby...

DerAuslander
6/03/2010 9:44am,
Was he issued a pum grade or a dan grade?

Those are two completely different things.

artiemask
6/04/2010 1:25am,
appreciate it!

artiemask
6/04/2010 1:28am,
poom grade written out at fourth dan..... also was told that through jidokwan it was acceptable....what do you think?

DerAuslander
6/04/2010 1:41am,
Get me a scan of the certificate.

rpeterson
6/22/2010 12:05am,
Where was this Jidokwan certificate issued? I'm no Taekwondo historian, but from what I thought I knew, the Jidokwan was absorbed by the Kukkiwon, and it lives on really only in memory. It's currently a fraternal organization in Seoul. At least, that's what I've been told by a few people associated with the Jidokwan in New York City.

The Jidokwan Kwanjangnim (Grandmaster Dong Keun Park) has a school in Jersey currently run by himself and his son. If you want me to toss an email to a couple of his students, I'd be happy to.

daishi
6/22/2010 1:33am,
Sorry for such a late reply...I just copy-pasted your question in an email to my friend. I've actually seen him several times since your post. I knew there was something I needed to ask him but couldn't remember what. I actually help him teach kids classes on weekends at HIS dojo (dojang I guess) and found myself staring at promotion certs on the wall but couldn't think why I was compelled to do so at the time, lol. I do know the certs were authorized through the Ohio Jidokwan Assoc/Org which I am guessing is independent. There were certs from their original teacher but they were in Korean...I know they had one other dojo-cho but he retired about 6 years ago and turned the dojo over to two of my friends. Anyway, will respond when he emails me back.

daishi
6/22/2010 1:37am,
...to add, the whole ranking system thing is kind of new in Japanese martial arts. I will related this to TKD/Jidokwan as it is my understanding they were influenced heavily by Tang Soo Do..which is basically Korean for Shotokan Karate (right?). Anyway, Jigoro Kano implemented a ranking system to appease the newer generations who craved some kind of immediate gratification/incentive for their training efforts. I find it is not too uncommon for schools who's style does not traditionally support a belt/dan/kyu system to add that in themselves for similar reasons.

rpeterson
6/22/2010 1:46am,
The Chung Do Kwan was the Korean Shotokan organization, the pronunciation might not be the same, but it sure is similar. The Chungdokwan, the Jidokwan, and one other that escapes me right now went on to form what is now Taekwondo. I'm pretty sure modern Tang Soo Do is basically rehashed Shotokan as well, but with a few more Chinese MA principles thrown in. You'd have to consult a Tang Soo Do person though, and not one talks about the whole Taekkyon thing.

daishi
6/22/2010 12:48pm,
Tang Soo Do is what the Koreans called Shotokan in order to not have it called karate (b/c Koreans and Japanese traditionally are not buddies).

There were, I think, seven original Kwans in Korea. These Kwans merged together to form, eventually, the Tae Kwan Do orgnaization...first the ITF under Choi, then the WTF under others when Choi got pushed out. I'm not too sure how much influence each Kwan had on the overall art of Tae Kwan Do, ie if the merger was more organizational than technical.

rpeterson
6/22/2010 6:11pm,
Thanks for the clarification. I think pretty much every Korean striking art that was involved in creating either TSD or TKD had a Shotokan background. They just had different philosophies. Still, as far as I know, the Jidokwan doesn't issue dan certs. They're just a fraternity of sorts.

daishi
6/22/2010 6:16pm,
There is a controversial book called "The Killing Art" about the history of TKD. Heck even that book hardly mentions Jidokwan. It is often an interesting book, but also can be a little off the wall and goes on tangents as well. Some of the content in there is consider to be a bit outlandish....but I learned a lot from and it pinged some of the more controversial statements off my TKD friends.

DerAuslander
6/22/2010 10:04pm,
The Chung Do Kwan was the Korean Shotokan organization, the pronunciation might not be the same, but it sure is similar. The Chungdokwan, the Jidokwan, and one other that escapes me right now went on to form what is now Taekwondo. I'm pretty sure modern Tang Soo Do is basically rehashed Shotokan as well, but with a few more Chinese MA principles thrown in. You'd have to consult a Tang Soo Do person though, and not one talks about the whole Taekkyon thing.

Lurk more.

Post less.

Cheongdogwan was not a Korean Shotokan organization.

There were more than three gwan that unified to from Gukgi Taegwondo.

DerAuslander
6/22/2010 10:08pm,
Tang Soo Do is what the Koreans called Shotokan in order to not have it called karate (b/c Koreans and Japanese traditionally are not buddies).

Wrong on both counts.

DerAuslander
6/22/2010 10:09pm,
I think pretty much every Korean striking art that was involved in creating either TSD or TKD had a Shotokan background.

Wrong.