I do believe that you should be just as strong as you can be for your size and weight, but according to Gene Lebell to be a GREAT grappler the three most important things are:
- Endurance
- Technique
- Pain Tolerance
If you're a real athlete, optimizing your strength to size ratio is just par for the course. Keeping your output levels going longer than the other guy, now that's important.

I seem to have more endurance when I've been lifting, than when I've been running.

I thought there was a post somewhere here by or about Rhadi Ferguson and his lifting/conditioning/cardio to prepare for the Olympic judo. If your goal is to compete at high level judo ...


Dude, I'm a 38 y.o. married father. I will never, ever be anywhere near "high level Judo." lol Right now I'd be happy with medalling at some local tournies and getting my black belt.

If you're a real athlete, optimizing your strength to size ratio is just par for the course. Keeping your output levels going longer than the other guy, now that's important.

I agree that athletes should maximise their strength withing their weight category but surely you're not suggesting that it actually happens?

there are a **** ton of fighters across all combat sports who have lost fights where the only real defining difference was their insufficient strength.

*cough*90%ofallJapanesefighters*cough*

my thoughts exactly.

Not sure if this has been posted before but there are some great programs on this site:

http://www.fightauthority.com/martial-arts-topics/training-your-body/mma-strength-workout/

Lots of top fighters workouts and videos on there. A lot of it is crossfit training using super sets at high reps and speed. Some of the super sets involve up to 8 separate exercises (eg the Team Quest one) all with no rest periods. So you blast through a hellish set across a number of body parts, take a one minute break then do it again for up to 6 sets (that was probably the nastiest looking one I saw on there). A lot of the videos are at pro level by guys who have already done a fair bit of hypertrophy and strength training so I would suggest scaling things back to suit.
The first time I introduced crossfit into my regular workout I totally gassed myself out and puked in the dressing room but sticking with it has made a huge difference in my overall fitness.
Plenty to look at on that link though, hope some of it helps.

I seem to have more endurance when I've been lifting, than when I've been running.

Well, certainly. Straight cardio isn't strength training, whether it be with free weights, machines, or pullups, dips & gymnastic rings.

I agree that athletes should maximise their strength withing their weight category but surely you're not suggesting that it actually happens?

Well, it's the norm for successful athletes. That's kinda who I had in mind, not the **** birds.

Well, it's the norm for successful athletes. That's kinda who I had in mind, not the **** birds.

But for people who aren't making a living by competition, there are two questions with opposing answers:

1) Who can I beat more people in - the weight class I'm currently in, or the next one down?
2) Who would win - me right now, or me with ten extra pounds of muscle?

There's no "right" choice, but I tend to endorse the latter rather than the former.

But for people who aren't making a living by competition, there are two questions with opposing answers:

1) Who can I beat more people in - the weight class I'm currently in, or the next one down?
2) Who would win - me right now, or me with ten extra pounds of muscle?

There's no "right" choice, but I tend to endorse the latter rather than the former.

Quite an effective pep talk. You should call Dana White, maybe he can get you a gig as a post-fight motivational speaker.

PS: how do you have 1500 posts more than me but I've been here two years longer? Fuckin hell...

A lot of stuff has been posted but the OPs question seems to be more in line with trying to understand why he sees better results from lifting than from running. Not how to train. JudOWNED an important thing to understand in training is that the body can develop more than one energy system/pattern. A sport like Judo is performed in a burst/recover cadence. Running for 20 minutes is a sustained effort at a relatively miled level of endurance. Both have value but at different activies. You will see better results with a burst/recover pattern in your training such as a tabata or HIIT program than you would from just running. You are likely performing your lifting in a burst/recover pattern either by luck or design and thats why you are seeing better results with that.

Now since I cannot resist chiming in I will add a bit of advice for you to consider in future training. When it comes to endurance in randori/sparring etc. Your breathing will make a bigger difference than almost anything else. I've met, sparred with and trained more MMA guys than I can remember who all had the same problem. They could do the endurance work, train for hours, etc but would be completely gassed in a couple minutes when they sparred.

Why? Because they held their breath. Its a natural response that has to be trained out of a fighter. Its what the average person does when they brace themselves. Now keep doing that while trying to throw, strike or grapple someone and you can see why they would be gassed so fast. Train yourself to exhale thru tension such as when trying to throw someone or when being thrown. This keeps the used up air out of your lungs and forces you to bring in fresh air. That little bit of advice can change someones entire game. Hope it helps.

If by "elastic" you mean bands, etc... Initially I lumped bands together with chains, but it occurred to me that I was missing something. Namely, a properly chosen band and chain will provide equivalent gravitational/elastic resistance, but at speed (or more precisely, under acceleration) the chain will also add inertia proportional to weight, whereas the band won't. This has obvious implications in terms of bar speed.

One of the most difficult things for me has been trying to develop speed and power while being relaxed enough to maintain good technique. WTF? It is very demanding. Varying speed is so easy to see in good Judoka/etc but so hard to do.

There is a paper I read by Zatirosky (?) with throwing drills that used short intervals and about 20% of BW-usually with a Bulgarian bag-I'll try to dig that up...


P.S. My rhetorical question wasn't me saying "I know something you don't know" - it was an attempt to reframe the discussion. Specifically, I would contend that for grappling, specific endurance of the upper limbs is of great importance, and so it may be worth trading off volume/intensity for that specificity.

pshaw, you Canadians are always apologizing for ****; strange peeplez....

One of the most difficult things for me has been trying to develop speed and power while being relaxed enough to maintain good technique. WTF? It is very demanding. Varying speed is so easy to see in good Judoka/etc but so hard to do.

There is a paper I read by Zatirosky (?) with throwing drills that used short intervals and about 20% of BW-usually with a Bulgarian bag-I'll try to dig that up...

Dude, "shirt intervals" had me racking my brain and scouring Google. (And I'm always interested in what Zatsiorsky has to say)


pshaw, you Canadians are always apologizing for ****; strange peeplez....

I have too much love for my PT brethren to accidentally start some drama.

Dude, "shirt intervals" had me racking my brain and scouring Google. (And I'm always interested in what Zatsiorsky has to say)

damn you for *quoting* me before I can do the damage-control edit!!

shirt-intervals sounds like some neijia/fascia-store&release stuff, maybe we should develop some routines to sell to the "Perfect Pushup" gang?



I have too much love for my PT brethren to accidentally start some drama.
fag.

I found this: http://www.combatsportresearch.it/documenti/poster%20pdf/poster_shootboxe.pdf

pretty cool.

I don't remember if this was Zatsirovsky or Verhoshansky or whomever, but they were Soviets and therefore thieves to begin with!


Rate of Force Development: How quickly can the athlete reach there maximal force production. The time is somewhat flexible depending upon the sport. Explosive motions occur in 200 micro-seconds or less. This is a neurological skill and requires some specific training parameters.

In sports with weight classes, the athletes tend to be very close as far as maximal strength is concerned. Therefore, which ever athlete can access that maximal strength faster will have a distinct advantage.

Loading: Dependant upon the sport. Range is from 20-60% of the 1 rep max...if that is applicable to the exercise at hand. explosive rotational motions with say a weight sled do not lend themselves to finding 1RM. In cases like these, 10-40% of bodyweight works well.

Pacing: Each rep must be done as suddenly as possible, but between EACH rep a moment must be taken to relax the muscles being trained. 1-5 seconds lightly shaking the tension out is sufficent.

2 sets of 4-6 explosive reps. 4 minutes rest between sets. This is one block.

Here is where the Russians prove their evilness.

Upon completing the first block, the athlete rests 6-8 minutes and then performs another block. This can be done up to 4 times!

The lighter the load, the greater the volume can be. If the loading is around say the 40% of BW, then keeping the reps to 4 and only performing 2 blocks would be appropriate.

Four to six days rest before training like this again.