View Full Version : Hargrave Martial Arts Systems

3/13/2010 5:04pm,
I originally signed up for this school in a joking manner after seeing a thread on Bullshido about the lead instructor. Then one day at work my email lights up with an acceptance letter. Not willing to miss the chance of a life time to train with a world renowned master, I quickly took the plunge.

My class was on Thursday evenings once a week. The school has no contracts but is very expensive for the little amount of mat time you receive. Tuition starts out at 65 a month for one class a week. You also pay a 30 fee to join their world JKD association, along with another 30 for a training shirt that you must wear. In order to progress it was another 40$ for a three ring binder manual.

The closest we came to any type of contact was some VERY compliant partner drills. It was the normal you punch, I block, I proceed to kill you in seven different ways. We did hit a mitt a couple of times, but that was it.

Equipment was pretty decent for the class size. I think their biggest mark would be for using too much equipment for falls and such.

There is almost no room at all to work out in. Its in a small glass outdoor room that is probably 15 by 40 feet. After you add in the room that their mats take up, it feels like your almost touching each other while you practice.

You do get plenty of help and attention with the class being so small. The reason for the 5 is more so due to the lack of experience and training of the assistant instructors.

Everyone was generally friendly and pleasant enough to talk too. The only issue that I really had was when I questioned one of the techniques. After pointing out that a specific lock wouldn't work, they proceeded to insinuate that I just didn't know what I was talking about.

Most of the striking was just us punching in the air. We did one night with some pads, but it was just some scenario punch once and the guy is destroyed stuff.

The grappling was not good at all. Their was zero resistance at all in the techniques, even with the upper ranks. All the take downs were done with a six inch throw mat literally touching the back of both feet. This isn't even pointing out the sad bit of grappling we were shown on the ground.

We only did a few things with weapons, but it is nothing that I could ever see being applicable to any type of real confrontation.

In closing, if your looking for a place where everyone fears having to do a pushup, doesn't want to actually fight but pretend like they can, and pay a crazy ass amount of money for 4 hours of not very good training a month, then this is the place for you. Otherwise run away as fast as you can.

3/13/2010 5:34pm,
Those are pretty low marks. To be fair, four classes cannot give you the overall picture of the training.

If you'd stayed longer, the marks probably would have been lower.

It was good of you to take your time and expense to give the world an insider's look at the 3x Grandmaster's world.

Going from 1st to 7th degree BB in two years is quite an accomplishment.

Did you really have to call him "Professor"?

Please send me the shirt :-)

3/13/2010 5:47pm,
I guess i should also point out that i did spar with a student from their Kempo course. He was testing for his brown belt. I went ahead and showed up at his test and got to spar. That will be in the day by day breakdown i do. Will link it to the review too.

I think the sparring is where it really hit home with me though. With him being a brown belt and currently training he should of destroyed me :P

You are required to address him as Professor, though i dont think i really ever did.

You have a shirt and manual coming to ya. I intend on alleviating the expense with your current promise of beverages.

It is Fake
3/13/2010 5:55pm,
Those are pretty low marks. To be fair, four classes cannot give you the overall picture of the training.

I don't know 4 hours vs 52? I think I had that with in the first month of my McDojo training.

3/13/2010 6:49pm,
I don't know 4 hours vs 52? I think I had that with in the first month of my McDojo training.

I don't know if it's right for me to review a place I've never visited. The past month CC and I have kept close contact regarding the classes. It should be known that CC and I go back to the Coda Scott days of 07, so we've kept in touch for awhile now.

CC is a Kempo BB. Same rank as Carter Hargrave before he separated from Dill and started his own "systems". There's a difference though, as CC has continued to train while Hargrave has set up a LARPtastic world of his own with no verified training since. Certificates yes. Plenty.

This has to be the most expensive training I've heard of short of private instruction from high ranking teachers.

Ranking is based on my understanding of:

Aliveness - LARPing with unrealistic defense technique. The pressure point techniques in particular. Not being a stranger to pressure points, the techniques as described to me via email and phone conversations will get somebody hurt. Somebody being the person relying on those specific techniques to defend themselves.

Equipment - have to go with CC on this one.

Gym size - Have photos of the green house. This may have been the original studio of Hargrave's (ex?) wife who was an artist. Hardly works for a serious workout for an activity as dynamic as serious martial arts training.

Instructor / Student ratio - Meh. Hargrave took a tour and was gone for one week. His student Becky, a brown belt provided instruction. Poor value for the money at those rates.

Atmosphere - CC was there. My first attempt at communication was threat of a lawsuit for "cyber stalking".

Striking instruction - Going from CC's indepth info to me on this one. Consider it as it is, word of mouth from someone who was there.

Grappling instruction - Probably being kind on this one with a rating of 2.

Weapons instruction - Saw Hargrave's video on Utube. Still laughing.